In this episode, Nicky and Terry invite special guests from Tennessee to discuss legislation that threatened the priority in that state.
Intro Music (00:03):
We are Randolph Shepherd Podcast. We're Randolph Shepherd podcast. This is the We are Randolph Shepherd podcast, promoting blind entrepreneurship and Independence. And now here's the dynamic duo, Nikki Gecos and Terry Smith.
Nicky Gacos (00:27):
And welcome everyone to the May, 2025 podcast. We are Randolph Shepherd. Oh my God, it's already unbelievable. Let's start off with our sponsors because again, we couldn't do not do this without our sponsors to National Association of Blind Merchants Box Stove Consulting, Southern Food Service, exo Integra, Greenway Paper Supplies Coca-Cola Higher Technologies, FSIG. You selected Panel Cure Dr. Pepper Services of Nashville. Terry, how are you,
Terry Smith (01:04):
Nikki? I'm doing good. We're recording this for those who are listening on April the 29th, which means we are days away from Blast in Las Vegas and Nikki, I know you and both are really looking forward to that.
Nicky Gacos (01:22):
Terry, I know with all the cutbacks and travel and everything of state agencies, we still got over 150 people coming and which we're very excited about, talk about positive things that are going on around the country. And it's great to have people from all the way from Hawaii to Florida to New York coming in. And I'm excited about it because anytime I said this, I always say when we get together, good things happen. Looking forward to it and just a week away from it, excited and we'll take the four of Mammoth and Blind will have a great presence at Mammoth, which is great. And we're excited that Carla Balaji, our CEO of Mamma who's retired at the end of the year, we'll be making appearance at our conference to say hello to everybody and stuff. So it's just exciting to get together and see everybody. It's been a few months since we saw everybody since blast in November, so it'd just be great to see everybody.
Terry Smith (02:22):
Yeah, Nikki, the agenda is out. Everybody who's registered has it, others, we've sent it to a lot of folks, but just if you haven't looked at it and you're registered, just remember we start on Monday afternoon, that's May the fifth at four o'clock we go four o'clock to six o'clock, then we do the reception, networking reception at six o'clock and then we go all day Tuesday. So got some good things planned and going to have a lot of discussion and want to hear your ideas on innovation and how to move the program forward and hear what's going on in your state. But we also have some really outstanding speakers lined up for you again, as we always do at these blast conferences. So I look forward to seeing you there and looking at the list. Nikki, there's some names there that I don't know, and so I hope if you're listening to this and we haven't met, please come up and introduce yourself. I'd love to have a chance to meet you,
Nicky Gacos (03:28):
Nikki, just in case everybody, it's North 2 52, 2 54, just in case you don't see it on the agenda. Room 2 52, 2 54 in the north part of the convention center.
Terry Smith (03:42):
That's correct. We're going to have some special guests in just a bit and that's going to take a little while. So Nikki and I are going to keep our part here, probably a little shorter than normal, which is probably not disappointing to some of you, but no sports predictions or anything like that. We're going to talk about a couple of things before we get into our guest, but this is the segment of the podcast where Nikki and I just sort talk about what's on our mind and we call it what's up. So Nikki, what's up?
Nicky Gacos (04:22):
Well, Terry, I've been thinking about this a lot, then I'm going to drop the F bob on you today and to our folks and stands for fun. I always have fun when we do things like Blast and these podcasts and talking to blog vendors all over the country. And it hasn't been much fun lately with different things going on. And I know I owe a lot of people phone calls, but I just can't call 'em because I know I'm going to be on the phone with 'em for a long time and stuff. But one thing I'm learning now is with family, it's so important. I know it's important to you and we've gotten close with our grandkids and our kids, and one thing is we got to have fun. We got to enjoy it. We got to make sure that we're having fun to do this and keep going and keep doing this and with all this stuff that's going on, again, it's fun. The other thing is the T word time. We got to make sure we have time to spend time with family and spend time with a lot of things coming up now, graduations and Jasmine coming home with our first year of college already and time to spend at work and time to spend with family and time to relax. So fun and time. That's what's up with me. Terry, what's up with you?
Terry Smith (05:40):
Well, we're going to change the rules to this WhatsApp because you always go philosophical and positive and I always come back with some nonsense, but what's up with me?
Nicky Gacos (05:56):
Let's hear about in San Antonio.
Terry Smith (05:59):
Hey, I was at SeaWorld in San Antonio this weekend and may have some more news about San Antonio next month when we come on board, but today was my doctor's day. I crammed all my doctor's appointments in and I was Ubering all over Chattanooga, getting all my doctor's appointments in all in one day, which is pretty good. And so I'm in good health, ready to rock and roll, and I was squeezing in Zoom calls and telephone calls in between the doctor's appointments. And so got all good news and sometimes I feel a little tired feeling my age, but doing well physically. And I do just want to add one thing. I talk about my family a lot and all of you know about my mom and how I talk to her every single day. And she's about to turn 93 and she's made the huge decision to move into assisted living. She's still driving, she's going to take her car with her, but she's to the point that she doesn't feel totally comfortable living at home by herself. So I would just ask that the listeners keep her and her thought your thoughts and prayers because this is such a huge transition for somebody who has been so independent for so long. So we're going to be up there in a couple of weeks doing all the moving and taking care of all that. And I know she'll do great, but any thoughts and prayers are greatly appreciated. Nikki,
Nicky Gacos (07:30):
You bet you Mother's Day coming up too. Happy Mother's Day every month too.
Terry Smith (07:36):
Yeah, we're moving her in Mother's Day weekend, which I sort
Nicky Gacos (07:40):
That I was talking. I know, I know Bob and he's great. So our prayers and thoughts go out to you, Terry and Bob.
Terry Smith (07:53):
Yeah, I was talking to her dad, she said, is that Mother's Day weekend? I go, oh yeah,
Nicky Gacos (08:00):
Yeah. I'm going to be with you, Bob, I'm going to be with you.
Terry Smith (08:06):
So Nicky, we could spend a lot of time here talking about the challenges that face Randolph Shepherd and all the problems and the things that you and I stay up late at night worrying about and pulling our hair out and banging our heads against the wall sometimes. But one thing that you've always said, and the one things I've always admired about you is when you see challenges and mountains, you see opportunities. And so under your leadership, NAB M'S going to undertake a process to try to look at what the opportunities might be and how we move to the next chapter and how we can innovate to take Randolph Shepherd to the next level. We could sit here and moan and cry about the problems we face, but you're all about opportunities. And so we're going to tackle that. And that's your plan.
Nicky Gacos (09:04):
That's my plan, that's my plan. We're going to go after ace, still going to go after them. We picked up a number of military bases. So I look at the positive side. We just got back from Utah. We're very happy about the way Don and Wells is running that program. The vendors were very excited about things. They're all coming to blast. So let's talk about the positives. We could be new and gloom, but I think there's opportunity for us. I think that we have these challenges, but we always have challenges. We've had challenges for the number of years that I've been a blind vendor and been in leadership of this organization. So you know what? We've dealt with them before and let's move forward now. I think we have the opportunity to do that. The crowd that's coming to blast and you still want to come on out, you come on out. It's not too late to come and join us. So I think these opportunities are going to be great for us, Terry. And if they're not, we're going to try. We're going to keep trying.
Terry Smith (10:00):
Well, we met with President Ricko, president of the National Federation of the Blind, who sort of challenged us to do some of this. We've put together a plan. We're going to have a lot of focus group type meetings, some surveys, and it all starts in Las Vegas because what we've asked is we're going to do state reports like we usually do at these conferences. Everybody loves the state reports. So we're asking everybody, we're asking each state to give a report and it's a two minute report on something to give us a quick update on what's happening in your state. But as part of your two minutes, you have to give us one innovative idea on how we can improve Randolph Shepherd or one challenge that we need to overcome and a suggestion on how to do that. And we're going to be cataloging all those.
(10:55)
We're going to have a panel discussion later in the afternoon after all of the state reports, and that panel's going to react to some of the suggestions that are made. We're going to hear their ideas. And that's sort of going to be the start of our information gathering process That's going to take a few months and then we hope to come up with some ideas on how to move the program forward. And so let's just see where it goes. If you're a person that, if Nikki likes to say don't think outside the box, throw the box away. If you're one of those people that wants to throw the box away and think completely outside, then let us know. And we'll certainly want to include you in one of our discussions. So it's going to be a big year in 25. So as we face the challenges, we also look for the opportunities, and that's what Nikki always stresses. Yep,
Nicky Gacos (11:46):
Absolutely. It all starts next to and national convention coming up in July. We'll be talking about it there and we'll talk about the possibilities of NBN becoming partial of a national nominee for procurement and different things and things we're talking about. So we're going to work on it and we want you to join us. And if lead following, get the hell out of the way, baby, because we're
Terry Smith (12:18):
Okay, Nikki, let's just go ahead and get to the main topic of the day. I know we've got some guests on.
Nicky Gacos (12:24):
We do. We had a real scare in Tennessee just a little while ago. The whole country was waiting to see what was going to happen. So Terry, why don't you introduce our guests and let's talk about what went on in Tennessee.
Terry Smith (12:36):
Yeah, we did have a scare, Nikki, and it was sort of the evolution of a bill can be interesting, but it can also be frightening. And Tennessee came frightening close to losing its priority, and we had to fight that back. And we got three folks who were very much involved in that process from start to finish and want to introduce them. Now we have Billy Brimlow, who is the chair of the Tennessee Committee of Blind Vendors. Billy's been the chair for a while. Billy, how long have you been chair?
Billy (13:10):
In my 14th year.
Terry Smith (13:12):
Yeah. Oh wow, okay. It's a lifetime commitment. And then we also have Joe Shaw, who is a Nashville vendor and operates a commissary up there. And he and his wife, Karen, were boots on the ground and did a great job. Say hello, Joe. Hello Joe. And then one of the first calls I made after Billy called me, I think I was the first person Billy called, and then I called James Brown right away. James Brown is the president of the National Federation of the Blind of Tennessee. Welcome, James.
James (13:46):
Thanks for inviting me.
Terry Smith (13:47):
Well look forward to this conversation. Billy, let's just sort of start, Billy, have one. Go ahead.
Nicky Gacos (13:55):
One quick question. It seems that when you left, that's when Billy became chair.
Terry Smith (14:02):
Our time did not overlap much right now that I think about it, he became chair just as I left, and maybe that's the reason. So Billy, this bill in Tennessee really sort of took on a life of its own. We're going to sort of piece this thing together piece by piece, but can you just tell folks about the original Bill, what it said?
Billy (14:31):
Okay. The original initially started out with three complaints. If a vendor received three complaints in a six period, they be removed from facility. There was no mention of validation. What constituted the complaint? Was it a valid complaint, anything of that nature.
Terry Smith (14:59):
So we have a bill that just says, three complaints and you're out. And the language was not very good. And we got with a sponsors came up with language that the vendors could agree with and everybody seemed to be happy. But Billy, what precipitated that bill? What did you learn about why was that? Bill introduced
Billy (15:18):
Primarily as a result of poorly filled machines and empty machines at the Tennessee State Capitol high profile area. And that is initially what substantiated this legislation being introduced.
Terry Smith (15:36):
And I think the legislators were frustrated because not only were the machines empty, they had complained to the department and the SLA and the SLA had done nothing about it. So they took matters into their own hands. And as I said, I think the vendors were okay with that was the accountability piece, the customer service piece. And after they got the language right, they were okay with it. And then came amendment number one. Billy, tell us what amendment number one was.
Billy (16:02):
Okay, in amendment number one, it did change from three complaints to one, but it also introduced the fact that VR would be opening up the priority or this legislation would open up the priority to other individuals with disabilities. If a facility was vacated and there was no blind vendor to assume that facility, then it would be offered to an individual with other disabilities.
Terry Smith (16:38):
And it's sort of hard to fight that because I mean, if you don't have a blind vendor who wants it, it's hard to say, well, we don't want it, but nobody else can have it. Again, the language was not very good. We had to work with the sponsors to get the language, and in my opinion, it's pretty insignificant thing. I don't think VR is going to be providing, I mean, this would mean that the VR counselor would've to buy the machines and put the machines in and it would not be a parallel program to the business enterprise program. So I don't think it's going to amount to much. And like I said, the vendors were sort of in a position that they couldn't say no. And so they got the language right and they were okay with it. So that bill flies through the Senate and gets passed. It goes through the house committees and gets passed, and everybody seems to be fairly comfortable, not too worried. And then Joe, you coined the term poison bullet amendment that was offered up on the house floor. Tell us about that poison bullet amendment.
Joe (17:47):
So the poison amendment that Kevin Vaughn introduced was an amendment that would make it such that basically we would have to compete on a bidding level in every facility across the state. So every facility would have to go out with an RFP and accept bids so that, say for example, at the corrections facilities, all the major big multinational corporations could have bid against us and at vending facilities or places that are just routes or college campuses and whatnot. It would be a scenario where canteen and these large corporations would bid against us. And when we were talking, it would basically exempt out our priority. It was going to basically make it such that we didn't really have a priority anymore. And as you've always told me coming up, our priority is everything. And that was the really, oh wow, I can't believe this is happening moment.
Terry Smith (19:08):
Yeah, the priority was, it said you only get a priority if your bid is within 2% of the best bid that they get. So if a big vending company offers 30% commission, you had offer 28%. And a lot of our vendors don't make 28%. So the effect of that bill, the real effect of that bill was going to be that approximately 80 blind vendors were going to be unemployed. The big impact was going to be on the commissaries TBE up rates, 49 commissaries. Every one of those would've gone away. And I think we calculated that there were maybe when you count the six federal properties and the rest areas, that's about all that would be left. So Tennessee would've gone from close to 90 facilities to about 12 or 13, so it would've been disastrous.
Joe (20:02):
Well, and as we've talked about many times, we are a leader program in the country. And when I would talk to anybody, I would say, listen, just so you know that if our priority goes everybody else's priority is going to go as well.
Nicky Gacos (20:18):
So we know that once this poison amendment came, it was a real threat. James, Billy, I'm sorry, Billy as the committee chair, what is the first thing that you did?
Billy (20:28):
The first thing I did was send the email out entitled Call to action to the committee and chair with all the vendors across the state. At the same time reach out to Terry for his assistance in developing an analysis and fact sheet to be used in this effort and shared that with the committee and all the vendors, and essentially ask them to call or email their representatives and share this information with them. Have your friends and family innovate their voicemails and their inboxes with requests to vote against this proposed amendment and shared this information with them?
Terry Smith (21:21):
It's sort of funny, and I'll tell you this real quickly. The first time Billy called me was about the original bill, and I was able to come up with a language and everybody was happy. The first amendment, he calls me and he says, I need some language to fix this, and I give him language and fix it. And in the third, the poison pill amendment, he calls me and he says, I've got 30 minutes. I need language that I can suggest for this bill. And he said, look at your email. I look at the email and it took me five minutes to recall him back and say, Billy, there is no language that I can come up with that's going to satisfy this, and this amendment has to be killed and it's got to be killed now. And so that's what they got to work at that point. And one of the first things I did when I knew we had a fight on our hands, and James Brown is president of the National Federation of the Blind of Tennessee, and he's got some good legislative contacts, and N-F-B-T-N has always been a supporter of TBE. So I called James and James, what was your reaction when you first heard about it?
James (22:33):
Really, my first reaction was where did this come from? Because we're dealing with a situation where we went from one bill that was somewhat innocuous. It was just trying to basically make the program better and adding a little people with disabilities sprinkled in there. It wasn't a big deal, but now all of a sudden, the night before the bill was supposed to be heard on the floor, we've got this amendment that's going to kill the program. And so my first thought was, we've got to find out if this bill's going to be rolled or not. So I contacted a lobbyist who works for the City of Nashville as a liaison for the state legislature, told him what was going on. He called the legislator who was sponsoring the bill and got the news that the bill came from the speaker of the house and the lieutenant governor, which wasn't great news, but he also told me that the bill was going to be rolled, so that gave us one week to try and kill this thing.
Terry Smith (23:36):
So I just thought that Billy, your chair of the committee mean did, did it ever enter your mind? I mean, was this really a serious threat or do you think this is just an exercise that we had to sort of go through and it never entered our mind that it would really pass?
Billy (24:00):
Well, essentially it was questionable at first, but as we started getting more information as to what's brought about the complaint and the seriousness of it, and as it evolved, it certainly quickly become a real ice threat, and that we needed to essentially attack it immediately.
Terry Smith (24:30):
Well, if you know anything about politics, you know that if there is a bill in the legislature that is being introduced on behalf of the speaker of the house and the lieutenant governor, it is hard to beat. And so if you think this was serious or not, that should tell you all you need to know. So we created a work group, and the folks on this call were on that work group, and Mary Baker was on the work group, and Lance Morris was on that work group and started to develop a plan of action. And James and Joe, tell us about your experiences on the Hill. I mean, we hit the hill and hit all the legislative offices and made as many contexts as we could. Tell us about your experiences. Joe, you go first and James, you fill in.
Joe (25:19):
I would say it was a really good experience, even for a really scary experience. I absolutely thought that there was a massive chance that we could lose, and I thought that there was a big chance we could lose because of how little time we had to act on it. We didn't have time to build a bunch of relationships like we did in a previous time when we basically had the whole session, this was like, Hey, you got a week ready, fire, aim, and it was just everybody go. And so we did. We just started making appointments, and it was the last week of the session of our state legislature. So when the day started on Monday, the first, as the week was starting, we would go in and everybody was in session or everybody was in committee meetings. So it was bouncing around trying to get meetings with all the representatives, which was really hard to do. But there was a lot of scenarios of let's bounce in just everywhere we can. And I would say there were probably six to 10 of us who were there most of the day, every day. And we would just go in and catch meetings as we could.
(26:50)
So this state has a super majority on one side. And so once we talked to a few people in the minority, we were pretty certain that we had everybody in the minority, so we could just focus on the bringers of the bill as well as the people in the majority. And I think that everybody did a really good job with learning what our story was, figuring it out, our personal story in going and telling that story. So while I don't think there was a period of time because it was such a small window of time, and I don't think there was any piece of that where I felt like we had it under control, but at the same time, I felt like we were all doing the work, doing the job to be able to, if we had a chance to win, to defeat it, to come out the other side, I felt like that we were going to do that.
Terry Smith (27:51):
So Joey, just to be clear, there are 99 members of the House of Representatives in Tennessee. How many of those 99 offices did you and Karen go to?
Joe (28:05):
Oh, so the first day when we had fact sheets made, Karen and I went to 99 offices in an afternoon, and we made sure that by the time that we left the building, there was a fact sheet in somebody's hands on somebody's desk or under somebody's closed and locked door and 100% of the offices in the House of Representatives.
Terry Smith (28:34):
You are a busy man, James, your way around the capitol and as an advocate and up there and for a number of years, what was your take on the way things were going?
James (28:44):
Yeah, this was a different kind of bill for me as it was for a lot of people. When I first heard the news, the very first time Terry had called me and I was eating, I had just been up at the state capitol working some other legislation for next year, and I was eating a meal, and Terry called me and I said, I'll call him back later. And I get another call from Ryan Smith, and this is after I had already eaten. And so Ryan is hyperventilating. He's like, he's about to pass it out. There's amendment. It's going to kill the priority. And so that's why this was really a totally different bill than I had ever experienced. And so when we got on the hill, I really found myself sort of advocating in a different way. Number one, I was pretty emotional because my friends were going to lose their jobs, and that's something you don't really face all the time.
(29:41)
So I can remember in one meeting, I kind of closed up my spiel and I kind of break up, my voice breaks up, I've got a little tear coming down, and the legislator is just, oh, it's okay. It's going to be all right. And so it really was so different. And if you've ever been in the South, you realize there are kind of two different kinds of conservatives. You've got your Bible conservatives and you've got your libertarians, and they're really two different breeds. And so I feel like that we got really a warm reception, like everybody we talked to except for some pretty strong libertarians, were very receptive to our message. And once we had got through with the meeting, it seems like about 90% of the people that we talked to were like, we're on your side. We're kind of be with you. That's the message that we got. So my first day on the hill was Tuesday. It was really my only day because I couldn't take off work again on Wednesday, but I came away from Tuesday feeling really good about where we were, but of course, we only had one day left, which was Wednesday.
Nicky Gacos (30:59):
So guys, one of the things that you did, we always worry about it or think it's a great thing, sometimes it could be a bad thing. You come up with that decision, how you think it worked out for you?
James (31:14):
It was controversial. I'll tell you, Terry, you want to chime in on that?
Terry Smith (31:19):
Well, we debated it and I had prepared an analysis of the bill, a fact sheet, a Facebook post that everybody could use, and the group wanted to go to the media. And I said, I got to admit, I had reservations. And I told him, I said, I'll prepare the press release. I will send it out. But just understand those things can blow up in your face and you can make the legislators mad and it just hardens or position, or once you go to the press, it can go off in any different direction. You lose control of the narrative at that point. So we talked through that and I'll let the rest of them talk about the conversation. Billy Joe, you guys were certainly involved in that discussion. What do you want to react to that?
Joe (32:10):
So I would say that I was probably the strongest against going to the media because in our state particularly there is the legislature almost has a, I would say a disdain for the media or it feels like to me that they can be almost, Hey, you went to the media or you tried to shame us publicly and we shall now pass this kind of to spite you. And I would say I worried about that. I worried about inviting other folks opinions who were not we or the legislators. I always worry about people who are ignorant to the issue speaking on it. But ultimately, I think we all came to, Hey, we don't really have a lot of choice because we don't have much in the way of time. And so I think it was we have to play every card that we have and these cards are available across the state. I was surprised how quickly and reticent they were to put our guys on the media, I think on camera in every part of the state. Am I right about that, Terry? Yeah, had, I think there
Terry Smith (33:49):
Was five stations in five cities,
Joe (33:52):
Which is, and in the five biggest markets, the word was out there and it concerned me, but I also felt like it was a, Hey, we don't have many options and many cards to play here, so let's play the ones we have and we'll worry about the fallout, which I think will be, I think the fallout. And probably you're going to talk about lessons learned or action in the future later on down the road. But I think we will have to deal with the fallout of all of this going forward. I think that's the next year of cleanup for us.
Terry Smith (34:34):
So Billy, you are part of that conversation. Why don't you chime in?
Billy (34:40):
Yeah. Initially I was a bit reluctant about reaching out to the media, but as we talked through it, and specifically when Representative Vaughn introduced his house floor amendments as referred to as poison pill, we essentially didn't have any choice at that point. Time was short. That was what essentially decimated TBE as we know it, and we really didn't have a choice. And I think in the final analysis going to the media and using that did work for us in this case. Now, whether there'll be repercussions at some other time, we don't know, we'll just have to wait and see. But the final analysis, I feel like it worked to our advantage.
Joe (35:36):
I also felt like that for the most part, it was a good thing, Terry, that most of the people, of the five people who were on camera, four of them were not in the legislative buildings, I would say. So even the faces that some of these lawmakers were seeing on their screens talking about this issue were not the same people they were seeing in their offices. So they felt like that, wow, this is affecting a lot of people.
Terry Smith (36:07):
I think James, you were probably a proponent early on in the media, right?
James (36:12):
Oh yeah. I was always a proponent, especially because of the situation. We were in the media wave. It was quite interesting. We sent out the media, the press release on Sunday night by five o'clock on Monday, 5:00 PM We had a great story here in Nashville, which is where the capitol is. By Tuesday, we had another story that was in Memphis that was about to come out. And this particular story in Memphis was pretty interesting. When the lady reached out to me because she wanted my comment as well, she reached out to me, and I think this was on Monday night because the story aired on Tuesday. And I read her title, her job title in her email, which said, your Money Investigator. And when I read that, I went, oh no, I hope this is not some kind of ambush, because I knew the potentials there for the story to go haywire just like Terry had mentioned. So we went ahead and did the story, and as we kind of got into the meat and bones of it, we realized this lady was very much on her side, and it turned out that she had called Vaughn's wife, representative Vaughn's wife, to try and get his cell phone number for a comment. And in doing so, found out his wife found out this bill that this amendment that he had introduced
(37:44)
And was not very happy and made a joke with Katie, who's the news reporter up there in Memphis on Fox 13, that he might be sleeping on the couch over Easter weekend. And so she went ahead and gave the cell phone number of Vaughn to Katie. And so Katie was then able to get a comment from Representative Vaughn and Representative Vaughn when he was asked about what the bill would do, kind of lied and said, oh, well, the intent of the bill, which originally was the intent was to expand opportunities for people with disabilities. Well, at the same time he was saying that the newscast flashed up the bill language that said you have to be competitive with all people. And so it really made him look like an idiot. And so at this time, were kind of scared that there might be some repercussions, just that Joe had mentioned that people might stiffen up their neck and just because we had came at them so hard that there was going to be some sort of repercussions. But I really do believe the difference in this case was that we had talked to so many representatives and we had reached so many people that were already for us because all these representatives that we were talking to who were really sensitive about the issue, they were calling Vaughn and saying, what is this? What are you doing? And so the representatives themselves were also putting pressure on Von. So I believe the synergy of all of it coming together really was the magic that got this thing killed.
Joe (39:21):
I like though that both those other gentlemen, James and Billy, both talked about possible future repercussions, and then James starts talking about how blind guys sending legislators to the couch on holiday weekends, folks, this does not feel like the avenue to take to me going forward. Hey wife, could you talk to your husband about this for us? This feels like this could be, yeah, we're going to have to smooth these edges the next 12 months.
Terry Smith (39:52):
Well talking about the story going the wrong way. And that was one of the ones that reporter tried to make a connection between donations and this bill. And we were not behind that, and we let the representative know we were, but she asked him on the air where there certain donations that he had received. She had investigated his campaign financing and she pointed out certain donations and wanted to know if those were tied. And he got really upset with it. That's when I said, oh no, this is not going the direction we wanted to go, and this is going to have the effect that we were afraid of, that it was going to harden people's opinions. And then we're up on the hill and Joe, I can't remember, was it Wednesday? I guess? Were we up there on Wednesday or Yeah, the vote was Thursday, wasn't it? We were up there on Wednesday and you ran into your lobbyist friend and it's around 11 o'clock and we're sort of stressed out. It's not looking really good. And you run into your lobbyist friend up there and tell him what he had to say.
Joe (40:57):
So we had just come out, Terry, Mary and I had just come out of a meeting with the speaker of the house, and we all felt like it went pretty well. I really kudos and compliments to the speaker who I really felt like heard us and asked good questions. And it was a good back and forth chat. But these commercials, news stories had been running on TV in the various places for the last couple of days. And I walked down to the cafeteria and my buddy stops me, who's a lobbyist and been up there for a long time, and he gets in my ear and he goes, man, you guys really fouled up. That's not the word he used. He said, I'll tell you. He goes, A lot of these people are really mad about this media stuff. And I was like, is that what you believe or that's what you're hearing? He said, no. He goes, these people are pissed. And so I just shook my head and he walked away. It was out of the box what you could do or what could you do about it? It was very much the vote was going to be taken tomorrow, so what will be will be,
Terry Smith (42:13):
Yeah. And I think he pretty well indicated we had no chance of winning, and that's at 11 o'clock or 1130, something like that. And he's saying, we have no chance. Yeah,
Joe (42:21):
He was like, you have zero chance.
Terry Smith (42:22):
Yeah, zero chance
Joe (42:24):
Zero.
Terry Smith (42:25):
And the people that were there were everybody there was going to lose their job that we had on the hill that day, and it was probably the lowest point in that process. But for the next three or four hours, we really went after the different offices. And there we were talking to staff and they were texting their members who were in session and their members during the middle of the session were going, talking to the sponsor. And I don't know, finally we got a text back saying he gives,
Joe (43:06):
There were two or three different, we were what, half a dozen of us sitting out in the hallway just sitting there waiting for folks to get out of session just so that we could start hitting offices again. And while we were talking, there were two or three staff members out in the hallway with us and they were texting their members and one of them said, oh yeah, he said he is going to pull it. And we went around and verified it from a handful of other folks, other offices saying, is this what your member is telling you? Because we just felt like it was too good to be true. And it's funny though, Dr. Maller taught me a long time ago how to count, and I was like, I'm not at all going to count this thing until the gavel drops on the session tomorrow. And Terry was like, absolutely. And so I think we both held our breath for most of the rest of the day the next day.
Terry Smith (44:02):
Billy, you were in the chamber the next day when the vote was taken. What was it like in there?
Billy (44:11):
It was exciting. We were in the balcony right behind the speaker, and when V announced that he was withdrawing the house, amendment, house floor amendment and was going with the Senate version and the speaker almost immediately gaveled for a vote. And once they were tall and showed, it was just ecstatic, there was eight of us there. And following the vote, the speaker speaker looked up and said, I'd like to thank the blind vendors for educating us about tbe.
Terry Smith (45:00):
So that was a pretty good way to cap it off, but it was a nice victory. And you guys don't understand, I mean, the pressure I felt, I mean that's the program that I helped with you guys to build it up. And I kept thinking when I was writing the summary and writing the Facebook post and writing the press release and if I say something wrong, but are we going to screw this thing up? And you guys did the heavy lifting up on the hill and with being on the news, and that was just a great, great team effort.
James (45:36):
So Terry, I was listening on the live stream, and once the amendment was pulled
Nicky Gacos (45:43):
And
James (45:44):
The vote took place, once that amendment was pulled, I could hear what sounded like about 50 people clapping and cheering. And Billy's telling me it was eight people. And so another thing to know about Vaughn when he was on the floor, when he pulled the amendment, he kind of apologized. He said, this was not my best idea ever. And said, I want to remove this bill from consideration. So when you think about what we did, whether it's true, whether that was a true sentiment of V's heart or not, we forced him to actually apologize in a sense. I don't know if he was just apologizing to us, but I think he was also apologizing to his fellow representatives because he had wasted their time by bringing forth this issue that we've already dubbed the poison pill. And it was not a popular idea at all.
Joe (46:47):
Couch gets called boys, let me say, I said to James and Billy and lots of folks that the thing that I was really proudest of, Nikki is that, and Terry is the spirit of NABM, the spirit of NFB you talk about, I may not agree with everybody politically or about this issue or that issue, but I was really, really proud that when we were threatened and when there was real danger to one of us or to all of us, every person who was able got in there and pulled as hard as they could, and it was, Hey, I'm fighting for your job. Just as hard as I'm fighting for my job. And everybody on our team had really good cheer and there was constantly, Hey, what can I do in this situation? I was just really proud and pleased with everybody's tone and everybody's spirit, and huge, massive thanks to Terry and to Nikki who taught us how to do this.
Billy (47:58):
It was truly a collective effort. Everybody working in unison that got it done.
Terry Smith (48:06):
So guys, I mean, we talked about, we were throwing everything at it. If you had to point at one thing, I know it was a great team effort and everything we did contributed, but if you think there's one thing that turned that around, what do you think it was? I think
Billy (48:22):
The number of people that showed up at Capitol Hill, the white canes and the handing out of the analysis and fact sheet, the emails, the phone calls, as I said earlier, it was one collective effort.
Joe (48:42):
So I was really pleased with the work that our team did. My wife, Karen, was the master of the spreadsheet. She was, Hey, you are going here and you are going there. And she was lining up meetings and stuff, and Mary did a great job making phone calls and setting up appointments and all this stuff. And so from the committee to, we got great support from NFB, James did a great job. He was there and lending support on camera and in the halls. Terry's leadership is always flawless. He did a great job both on the computer and in person. Nikki and Melissa with NABM support was fabulous. I frankly was shocked at the silence that our SLA displayed. I was surprised that it almost seemed like that they were only not doing anything. It was like they were working against us with making it so that the fiscal note didn't look like it was going to hurt the department at all. When we helped draw down a major match that helps fund the department to everything, when they would talk to people, when they would call them, I'm sorry, when the legislators would call them, it felt like that our SLA were either stone silent to basically we don't care. And that was shocking and frankly, very disappointing to me, the attitude of those people.
James (50:32):
Yeah, Joe, I was disappointed myself when I heard about the bill initially that, oh, we want to get rid of the vendors for not doing their jobs. But we also talked about that the agency didn't do their job to fix the situation. So I was really hoping there would be an amendment to get rid of the agency, but that didn't happen.
Terry Smith (50:58):
Every office we went into, Joe, and I think at least the meetings I was in, we got the question, where's the department? Why aren't they over here telling us this? And it was almost like, if you're telling us the truth, why aren't they over here telling us the same thing? And so that was something that we had to overcome. And I understand there's a bureaucracy and they can only do so much, but you're right, the silence was deafening. Guys, let's wrap this up. I want you to give me one lesson to be learned from this experience. I've got four or five and I thought I was too old to learn new stuff, but four or five that I could click off here, each of you give me one lesson learned.
Joe (51:46):
I would say, first of all, we need to as a state, and I would encourage everybody listening out there, make friends with your legislators. Be out in the community, let them know who they are or who you are. Have it be a scenario that when one of these bills come up, for example, I'm certain now that in the future my representative will say, wow, that could hurt my constituent Joe, or that could hurt my friend Joe if this bill passes. And they would shoot me an email or give me a call. But that's because going forward, I haven't been involved enough. And I would say being out in the community, doing a good job, but also saying to my legislator, hi, my name is Joe. I live in your district. I'm a blind entrepreneur. Here's what I do. Here's what our program is and here's how it helps blind people in my community, in your community, in the state and throughout the country. I think it's really, really important to make these relationships and educate these people because if they are just passing some legislation, because how many people, James, if we go into their office and they would say, well, I had no idea this would hurt anybody, or I had no idea anything about this program. So I would say I've become very, very passionate in that we need to foster and make these relationships flourish so that when something comes, they're like, whoa, that's going to hurt my friend Joe. I don't want to do that.
James (53:38):
Yeah, I agree totally Joe. And I would say to those people listening, I would say get involved. Dr. Jernigan, who was kind of one of the founding members of the National Federation of the Blind, he's one of our past presidents. He talked about the power of collective action and he basically said, even animals know that you are more powerful if you are in a pack. And so I think it was our collective action. It was that synergy. If you've got one person rowing in a boat going a certain speed, and you put two other people with that person in a boat, rowing, well, you just don't get three times the speed. You get like six or seven times the speed. And that principle of science is called synergy. And so when we're all working together towards the same goal collectively, then that's power. And so I want to encourage you all to get involved with the National Association of Blind Merchants, the National Federation of a Blind, because together we can do things that alone we would never be able to do.
Billy (54:44):
And one other thing going forward, we can no longer take the priority for granted. The vendors are going to have to see the priority. It's not an entitlement, but it's an opportunity to be an entrepreneur and operate your business at the highest level that you possibly can. So that folks out there and the legislators, I agree with both Joe and I agree with both of them. They need to operate their businesses as entrepreneurs and make it a shining example of what the blind can do, not attract attention for the lack of how they're doing.
Joe (55:41):
Go ahead. One more thing, Terry is my mentor. Terry Smith taught me, Hey, if you're a blind guy working in this program, if you're a blind girl working in this program, go to work, be seen working. I would say this is a program for blind people to work, be seen working. I think that's also massively important.
Terry Smith (56:10):
No, the actor, listen, you guys talk. I don't know that maybe I didn't learn a lot, but it certainly reaffirmed some of the things I've said over the years. I have preached to preached and preached it. One bad blind vendor can ruin it for all of us. None of this happens. None of this happens if the vending machines were being filled at the Capitol and if the SLA had responded appropriately, and look what happens. The other thing I'll say along the lines of what James said, we talked, when we had our very first meeting, we started talking about different lobbyists. And I said then, and I say it now, blind people speak for blind people better than anybody. And I think we proved that with this effort that we don't need a lot of other people. There's a place for lobbyists, but we need to speak for ourselves.
(56:58)
And I thought we did a good job of that and we got to wrap it up here. But I do want to say back in the day, and this is a challenge to you guys, I'm not going to be around forever, but back in the day, the blind vendors, the committee or TABM or somebody would do a legislative reception. You would take biscuits up and take sausage and biscuits to all the offices. You would do donuts and take to the offices. You are up on the hill and you establish relationships. And I think we got to go back and we got to revisit that. And I can't help, but my heart goes out. As I think about Scott Young, who is a former vendor who passed away, he was very active politically. He was the guy that Joe was talking about that the legislators would not do anything if they thought it was going to hurt Scott.
(57:54)
He was very active politically. He saved our butts many times when crazy rogue Bills were being introduced or discussed. And we need that again. We need that visibility up on the hill. So guys, it was an amazing experience. One I hope I don't have to go through again, but I'm proud of you guys. I'm proud of my state. I'm proud of what we were able to accomplish. The Tennessee Business Enterprise Program is the number one program in the country, and it was the number one program in the country last week. And thanks to you guys, it's the number one program in the country this week, and it'll be the number one program in the country next year. So my hat's off to you guys for a job well done. And so with that, I just got to add that if you missed Nikki's voice here toward the end of this discussion, he got kicked off and we couldn't get him back. And so we had to carry on without him for the last little bit. So with that, I will close us out and say, guys, thank you for being here. Hope you enjoyed the We Are Randolph Shepherd podcast and be looking for our next podcast come next month, which will drop on June 1st. See you guys later.
Sponsors (59:17):
The We are Randolph Shepherd Podcast. Would like to thank our sponsors, the National Association of Blind Merchants, Blackstone Consulting, Southern Food Service, Sodexo in Reach. Greenway Paper Supplies, Coca-Cola, Tyler Technologies, FS IG, you select it. Cantaloupe, Keurig, Dr. Pepper, and Commissary services of Nashville.
outro (59:49):
If you would like to support the We Are Randolph Shepherd podcast, we would love to have you on board. Corporate sponsors may contact Nikki geicos@nikkicolorado.netscape.net. Individuals who would like to support the podcast may do so by donating to the National Association of Blind merchants@www.blindmerchants.org. We would love to have your support.