In this episode, Nicky and Terry invite the President and President-Elect of the National Council of State Agencies for the Blind, and they also discuss current issues involving the Department of War.
intro Music (00:00):
Nicky (00:26):
Welcome to the We Are Rand Shepherd podcast for the month of November, and we'd like to thank our sponsors, as always, at the National Association of Blind Merchants, Blackstone Consulting, Southern Food Service, commissary Services of Nashville, Sodexo, Integra Greenway Paper Supplies, Coca-Cola, Tyler Technologies. You selected Cantaloupe, Keric, Dr. Pepper. Terry, how are you,
Terry (00:56):
Nikki? I'm doing great. Good to hear your voice again. And, uh, be back for another episode of the We Are Randolph Shepherd podcast. Um, thought about you, uh, this last weekend I went to see a movie about your boy Bruce Springsteen, the Jersey Boy, and, uh, you know, they got the, uh, new movie out, uh, out of outta Nowhere, I think it is, and, uh, about Bruce Springsteen, a Jersey guy. And, uh, I know he's one of the people that you really, really like a lot. I gotta say Bruce is better than the movie. Uh, just the movie was just so, so, uh, really almost disappointed in, in, in, in the movie itself. But, uh, I know you got some, uh, you, you got some connections there with the Bruce, right? The boss Man.
Nicky (01:41):
We, we, we, we, we do, um, one thing we do is we share the same birthday, September the 23rd,
Terry (01:47):
All right?
Nicky (01:48):
One day we, uh, we were in, uh, Colorado, uh, on our birthday for a show, and they gave us two sweatshirts that said, happy Birthday in the front. And on the back, it said, born in the USA, born on this very day, September 23rd Mile High Stadium. And, um, it, and we went out and, um, we were with the, you know, we have some good connections with the band. And, um, after the, the, that night at the show, it was outside at Mahi Stadium, it was kind of snowy and cold, and next day everybody wanted to go out and get heated, um, socks and all kinds of stuff. And we were going out to buy Bruce a present. I mean, we were hanging out with the band, and they wanted to buy him a pogo stick for his birthday. Um, this kind of electronic kind of pogo stick.
(02:32)
And I'll never forget John Landau, who's the, you know, the, the boss man for the E Street band. And for Bruce said, you can't give him that. We got three more days of this tour. He can't be on a pogo stick, you know, twist design core or something. But anyway, we, we found him all kinds of heated stuff, and socks and everything. And of course, typical Colorado weather, it turned out that it was 75 the next day, and they didn't need any of that stuff. But there was great shows, and, and you're right, Terry, one thing about Bruce is, even from the beginning, you listen to his albums and people say, oh, I don't like this guy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But when you see him in person, the energy is just unbelievable. And if, you know, so I, I always say to people, you gotta see him in person.
(03:10)
And I've been very fortunate to see him numerous times at local bars and stuff at the Jersey Shore, and he's been a, a customer of mine in a, in a, in restaurants. And, um, so it's been a pleasure to see him. And when I think about that, I think of how many people have played the local bars at the Jersey Shore at Asbury Park and just never made it. You know, and hear Bruce is a billionaire and, you know, tours and just toured last year at age 76. Um, and, and just, it's just, the energy's just great. And I'll tell you one other quick story about Bruce. When I was in college at the University of Pittsburgh, there was a show that night at the University of Pittsburgh, and it was Poco. And opening for Poco was Bruce Springsteen in E Street Band. And my roommate and I, who was from Long Island, we were called the local FM station and talked to this guy named Kip Barron.
(04:02)
And he was great. He knew a lot about music. He said, uh, what are you guys doing? We said, are you gonna go to the show tonight? He goes, no, I'm not a Poco fan. And we said, no, you gotta go see Bruce Springsteen. And the next day he opened the show and he just kept saying, wow, wow,
Terry (04:36):
Well, I, um, I saw him one time in person, and that was, thanks to you, you got us, uh, tickets when he was in Nashville. Um, and I probably told this story before, but, uh, we, you, you couldn't get us out in the main part. We were behind the stage, which I, which you would think if you're behind the stage, it's a terrible seat. But the way it was laid out, we were maybe a hundred feet from where he was. Now, we did see, have to watch him from behind 90% of the show, but we were right there. And, uh, it was absolutely, and the guy went for like three hours without a break. It, I mean, it was phenomenal. And, uh, just an incredible musician. Now, of course, you know, he could only wish to be as good as Taylor Swift. I mean, I know you're a real swifty, but, uh, did you see all the Billboard Top 100 this week? Of
Nicky (05:21):
What, what did she have? 99 of them. What?
Terry (05:23):
Of the 14 top songs? She has 12 of the top 14 top songs.
Nicky (05:30):
God bless her,
Terry (05:31):
Bless her, her and Kelsey. God bless her. And Kelsey
Nicky (05:35):
I tell you what, he, he's not too bad either.
Terry (05:41):
That's right. That's right. Uh, Nikki, um, we, uh, we, we, we sent out a save the date earlier, um, in, you know, last, last, last few days. And we've got a lot of stuff coming up in early 26. You wanna hit some of those?
Nicky (05:54):
I do. And we also have a couple things coming up in, um, in, in 25 still. We have the Innovation Conference down in Tampa on the 10th to the 12th of December, uh, which we'll be participating in and have a few, uh, blind entrepreneurs that have signed up for that. In fact, there's got a couple calls today about that. We'll be visiting, uh, Florida again to work with their new committee, um, in early December. Um, and also, uh, we'll be speaking to the Oregon meeting on December 16th, uh, virtually to give them an update and talk like that. We've been doing a number of those things. But looking forward to the 90th anniversary of the Randall Shepherd Program. Um, we do have a lot to celebrate. There's a lot of craziness going on with this shutdown. But, um, we start in, uh, early January and, and the 20th to the 22nd in, uh, Scottsdale, Arizona with Cantaloupe University.
(06:45)
Uh, we attended it last year. It was very good. We'll be doing some breakouts, uh, on Randolph Shepherd and for the Blind, and we'll be networking with the, um, our, our other part participants from the convenience services industry. So very excited about that. And then we'll have our, um, March meeting in Vista, Southeast Vista Buying Show in Orlando, Florida. Uh, we'll be doing a training on the 30th of March. Monday. There'll be a reception Monday night at SeaWorld. Tuesday will be the trade show. And, uh, we'll probably do a reception on Sunday night for people to come in so we can get some training in and find out what's going on and, and stuff. Like I said, it's always good when black people get together. And then we have the, uh, LA Live blast, LA live at LA Live, which it is the convention center, that's the area of Los Angeles, uh, on April, uh, 21st, 22nd, and 23rd, 24th in Los Angeles at nama. And more things will be planned. And also the 90th anniversary on June the 20th. Uh, more details will be coming out about that. And then our national convention in July. And that gets us through the first busy six months of 2026. Whew,
Terry (07:56):
Man. I'm tired already. Just thinking about it. Um, hey, Nick, before we move on, we, we, we've got a do we're, we're about the midpoint football season. Don't wanna spend a lot of time talking football on this episode, sort of mid-season checkpoint to see where we are in our predictions. Uh, talking about college football. It looks like I nailed this one. Um, you know, I'm looking good. I picked the LSU Tigers, and they've already fired their football coach. I think they decided in Baton Rouge, if Terry's, Terry's gonna pick the Tigers and we gotta find a new coach. 'cause something's gone wrong. And so they are terrible. Not even gonna make the playoffs. And they've fired their football coach. So I gotta throw in the towel on my college pick. Who, who You picked two. I can't
Nicky (08:38):
Remember who. I, I think Georgia. Georgia,
Terry (08:40):
Georgia. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we both dogs are
Nicky (08:42):
Still alive. Dogs are still alive,
Terry (08:44):
Dogs are still alive. They'll be in the playoffs. So, so, so, so you have a shot. And on the NFL, I think we are both still alive. I picked the Detroit Lions to win it all. I'm not, don't feel real good about the pick, but they are, you know, they're, they're, they're, they're still alive. Um, and let's see, who did you go
Nicky (09:01):
Hanging in there?
Terry (09:05):
Who'd
Nicky (09:06):
You go with? I said, oh, my pick. Was the, um, Los Angeles Ram still alive, still very much alive?
Terry (09:11):
Yes. So, see, we're, we're not too bad on, on, on, on the NFA, uh, just, just what a dumb pick. LSU Oh my God. You know, sometimes it just, you just do, you just do crazy things.
Nicky (09:22):
Yeah. I think God looked at you and said, no, no. Good Tennessee Evolve should be ever Pick LSU
Terry (09:30):
Hey, Nikki. Um, before we get onto the serious stuff, we always like to, you know, check in on each other, you know, in terms of what's going on, what, and, and so give a few seconds to talk about what's up. So, Nikki, what's up?
Nicky (09:44):
Well, what's up is, uh, this baseball player from Los Angeles, Dodgers, oan, um, he, I mean, this guy is just maybe the greatest baseball player ever. And I hope people are watching him during this World Series. 'cause it's just unbelievable to strike out 10 and hit three home runs. And then, uh, one of these games, he had two home runs, two doubles, five walks, and now he's pitching tonight. That's just absolutely crazy. But Terry, I'm gonna tell you what's up with me, is that, um, I heard a story the other day that God said to a blind entrepreneur, in 30 days, you're gonna be a millionaire. And guy came up to him and said, uh, Terry came up to him and said, Hey, you wanna buy a lottery ticket? The guy said, Nope, I don't need to. I'm gonna be a millionaire. God told me I'm gonna be a millionaire.
(10:28)
I went up to him, tried to sell him a lottery ticket. He said, Nope, I'm gonna be a millionaire. And somebody else went up to him, I think it was Ed Birmingham, and said, you wanna buy the lottery ticket? He said, Nope. He said, I'm gonna be a millionaire. 30 days went by and he was not a millionaire. He said, God, you told me I was gonna be a millionaire. He said, I tried to get three guys to sell you the winning lottery ticket. You didn't buy it. And my point of that is, you know, we always tell people they need to get in voluntary. And my message in what's up this time is we got a lot of things going on with the shutdown and everything else we're gonna talk about. And we really need our guys to get involved. It's not just about God's telling you something, buy the ticket, get involved. We really need to get involved with our guys, and I hope that they really come up big this time. Otherwise, we're in a heap of trouble. But, um, and for me to be the, not the optimist, but I really still think we're gonna come out of this good, but what's up with me is I hope people get involved and really start to give during the holidays and get back and, and get involved with their program and with their lives. What's up with you?
Terry (11:32):
Well, I, you know, I'm sort of feeling a little stressed with everything going on with, um, you know, the Department of Defense, which we'll talk about it a little bit, but last night I just sort of got a kick. I was my, um, personal email account. Some of you know it, it's the E-P-B-F-I account. I've got 15 years worth of emails on there. And it, um, I don't have unlimited memories. So from time to time, I just have to go in and just start deleting hundreds of emails to, to create some space. So last night I just, I just went in, I said 2014, and it put up all my emails from 2014. Now, I don't need emails from 2014. So I just got started going through, just delete, delete, delete, delete. And then I'd see one and I'd start reading, and I'd get a kick out of it, some things that were happening, and I'd delete, delete, delete.
(12:17)
And then I, I ran into the blitz, the first blitz, and Kevin Worley had sent it out, uh, in early 2014. And I just sat there and just sort of, uh, in amusement as I read through the blitz, um, that, that we sent out. And, and it was in that one that we announced that we were going to partner with Hadley. And our goal was to offer online training for states to, to, to do their, for their new training for new blind vendors. Um, and, you know, it was just an idea at the time. We went and we announced the partnership, and you know, now we've trained over 400 people, uh, since I started talking. You'll get a kick outta this, the buying group. We said the buying group is with RSA management group is exceeding expectations. And the last quarter, guess how much they gave out in rebates that quarter? $185,000. That's $750,000 a year. And we were saying it exceeded expectations. Look what it's grown to Now what now, of course, we're no RSA measure groups gone now with Reach and Sodexo, what's it gonna be? $5 million or something like that,
Nicky (13:27):
Between four and 5 million.
Terry (13:29):
Yeah, I mean, and, and we were talking about $750,000 was exceeding expectations. And, you know, I keep telling people, you deserve credit for, for, for making, making that happen. Um, there was, um, um, we were talking about that RSA was gonna be hiring a new Randol Shepherd program specialist, and Janet Lere was gonna be hiring somebody, and we knew it was gonna be somebody really, really good. Uh, and I meant to go back and look, I don't know if it was D Jones or or Jesse Hartle, uh, in 2014, I think it was Jesse in 2014. But, uh, uh, just sort of, um, um, and we were talking about NAMA and building a partnership and how NAMA has always not looked favorably upon blind vendors and how you were on the government operations committee and how you were, you were, you were building a bridge between the Randolph Shepherd community and nama and look at their relationship.
(14:27)
Now, you've been on the board twice. We do training in conjunction with the NAMA conference every year. Uh, they, they, they look forward to seeing us. They want us at their events. Uh, and you know, just really about 12, almost 12 years ago, you know, we were talking about we needed to bridge it. And the last thing was we were talking about our subscription program and how excited we were that had 19 states participating, and now we're over 40. And so I just got a kick outta looking back at the, where we were in 2014. And you know, how a lot of the stuff we talked about then and how it grew, and just really amazing when you, when you, when you really think about it,
Nicky (15:08):
It just shows like if people get involved that we really stress it and work together, great things can happen.
Terry (15:14):
Well, I think, uh, to, to your point, we bought the ticket and, uh, I, you know, we didn't win the lottery, but I think we certainly made some difference. Um, Nikki, we need to talk, uh, talk a little bit, um, you know, about some things happening currently before we get to our guests. And we do have two special guests we want to get to, uh, here pretty quickly. Uh, but as we record this on October the 28th, um, the government is shut down. Uh, all of our friends at RSA and I say all of our friends at RSA, not just Randolph Shepherd, I think RSA still has two people, um, that, uh,
Nicky (15:49):
And GSA,
Terry (15:50):
Uh, and, and, and they got, um, they've all been furloughed and they've all got letters that they were, their last day was December the ninth. And, you know, they've gone to court and we know all about that, and we don't know what's gonna happen. But, you know, I gotta say this to our friends at RSA, you know, we, you know, we're critical of them when they don't do good, but we're their biggest supporters when they do good. And, you know, we are hoping that, uh, you know, this thing works out. 'cause we do need a strong RSA and, uh, so, uh, I can't imagine the anxiety that they must feel right now, but, uh, we certainly support a strong RSA, we support getting those people back to work. And we don't know what that's gonna look like. We have no magic ball, uh, uh, crystal ball. But, uh, we certainly want to see a strong RSA and see those guys back to work.
Nicky (16:42):
That, that's for sure. Um, you know, I, you know, I, I'd be an awful nervous if I knew December 9th was my last day. What should I do? Should I look for another job somewhere? Um, do I wait to see if my job will come back? You know, and with, with people that, that they both have families, all the people we know have families to support and everything. So I hope this thing gets settled, and I hope we get back to some type of, some type of normalcy.
Terry (17:07):
Nikki, the other thing I wanted to bring up is, I mean, you and I have just the last, I guess probably 24 hours have just been dumbfounded by some comments we heard on another podcast. Some folks shared it with us. It's called the Ruthless Podcast. I'm not necessarily plugging the con the, the podcast for people to go listen to, uh, for obvious reasons. But the Secretary of the Army, Dan Driscoll, was on there. And the things that he said about Randolph Shepherd were absolutely astounding. Um, he said that the, you know, he talked about, he was talking about waste in government, and as an example, he used the fact that the Army is the biggest purchaser of chicken in the country. And as the biggest purchaser, they should be able to get chicken cheaper than anybody else, but they pay double the price, uh, because they have to buy their chicken from, from the blind vendors.
(18:02)
I don't know any chicken, any, any chickens being sold out there by our blind vendors. You know, we, we, we do labor contracts on our military dining, but, uh, you know, there, he's, he is insisting that the pricing increase on, on chicken is due to blind vendors. And then he goes on to say that any, it's all is all you have to do is find a blind, find your blind grandmother, set up an irrevocable trust where she gets 51% of the profit, and then you can get the contract and keep it forever. Uh, you know, where this guy gets that kind of information. I really wanted to play the clip, but I'm sure we'd have some type of copyright infringement. And I, I, I know they have deeper pockets than we do, and I didn't wanna tackle tackle something like that. Uh, but, you know, if anybody wants to go out there and listen to the Ruthless podcast at about the last 20 minutes, right at the one minute, uh, one hour mark, uh, when, when he, when he makes these comments, and, you know, it's hard to defend yourself against things that are just so far out there and just so untrue.
Nicky (19:07):
Well, the thing, the other thing too is that, I mean, it, it just, it, it made me sick, to be honest with you, when I heard the comments and the fact that the people that were with, um, secretary Driscoll were making fun of blind people, um, you know, like laughing about it. Oh, let's go find a blind person to make comments like that for the blind veterans that have lost their sight serving in a war, and, and, and, and, and, and that type of thing. And for our blind entrepreneurs to go to work and do a good job, to, I mean, that the Secretary of the Army's coming up with false information like that and speaking about it on a podcast, I, I, you know, it makes me, I I hope he is not getting information from other things, you know, about, you know, defense of the country and other things like that, that he's, that's this false information.
(19:52)
But between the false information and the things that they said about blind people, the comments they made and the laughing, I just, I just, I, I said, um, you know, we're gonna, we'll be coming out with a statement soon. Uh, not we, but the National Federation of Blind. I know we'll be coming out with something and, uh, we'll, we're doing some things. And if anybody, you know, it's the October 23rd podcast and go to first 59 minutes and listen for about four minutes. But, um, I hope everybody gets as upset as, as we are, and I am.
Terry (20:21):
Well, and the thing is, it's not just a one-off, this is not something that he just said one time. 'cause he was quoted in, um, two different magazine articles making similar kind of, uh, similar kind of remarks. Um, and, you know, we, we, we, we understand the challenge. We have to educate them, uh, in terms of what the program really does, but it is just so hard when you're dealing with such, uh, misinformation. And, you know, we can't meet with them because the government's shut down. They will not do any meetings while the government is shut down. So we cannot advance our narrative, but they're able to get out here and continue to advance their false narrative. And so it puts us behind the eight ball, but we are still working, uh, some legislative contacts and, and some, some good legislative contacts and, um, to, to, to try to facilitate some meetings. And so let's, uh, see where that goes. But it, it is disheartening. I, I, I gotta say,
Nicky (21:15):
And Gary, we did a very successful town hall meeting, uh, just about 10 days ago. And, um, I hope to do, we hope, we hope to do another one, uh, hopefully sooner than later when the government gets back to work or whatever, or to talk about this situation with the Secretary of the Army. But you're right, the articles that are in print, this podcast, um, you know, we, we, we we're, we we're trying to get meetings with them, um, but we were told that the White House has shut down all meetings with personnel, but we are still working it, uh, working up with, uh, congress people, senators, uh, d different people that we built relationships with. Uh, we, we, there'll be a lot more to this than just this comment tonight. So,
Terry (21:58):
Well, we, we'll eventually prevail. I'm confident of that. Um, but it's just, uh, you know, like I said, it's, it's heartbreaking what we have to ha ha you know, deal dealing with this. So,
Nicky (22:10):
Okay. Uh, Terry, we have some very special guests coming up. Um, um, I'm glad that you were able to do the interview with them. So, uh, let's hear about our friends from N-C-S-A-B.
Terry (22:22):
We're excited today to have a couple of very special guests, uh, folks who are well known in the field of rehabilitation for the blind. And two people that I consider to be friends. And, uh, folks that, uh, I, I enjoy working with on a daily basis is when it comes to, uh, Randolph Shepherd on the national level. We have with us, uh, Dorothy Young, who is the director of the Office of Vocational Rehabilitation for the Blind in Mississippi. And she is the president of N-C-S-A-B, which is the National Council of State Agencies for the Blind. And we have Greg Trap, who is the executive director of the New Mexico Commission for the Blind, and he is the president-elect of N-C-S-A-B. And Greg's about to serve his second term as president as he has previously served, uh, in that role. So, welcome guys.
Dorothy Young (23:13):
Thank you. Thank you, Terry. Thank you for having us.
Terry (23:14):
Well, it's great. Great to have you. Just gotta, uh, you know, there's so, there's so much going on and, um, you know, my background coming from the state agencies and, uh, you know, understand how, how difficult that is for, uh, at, at this particular time to be trying to run a state agency. But before we get into all of that, just sort of tell us, uh, 'cause a lot of our listeners may not even know what is N-C-S-A-B and sort of sort of what do you guys do?
Dorothy Young (23:41):
Okay. Um, Greg, you want me to take that one? Do you wanna
Greg (23:44):
Take
Terry (23:44):
It?
Greg (23:45):
Absolute, no, absolutely.
Dorothy Young (23:46):
Okay. So thank you first and foremost, um, Terry, for having us, um, on this podcast, uh, on behalf of the National Council of State Agencies for the Blind, N-C-S-A-B is a, a consortium of state directors from across our great country. And we come together to promote through advocacy, coordination, and education, the delivery of specialized services that enable individuals who are blind and visually impaired to achieve personal and vocational independence. So we are state directors, um, and we, um, come together to, um, and I like to tell people we come together to connect, to improve services for individuals who are blind and visually impaired.
Terry (24:29):
Great. Um, I was president. I had the privilege of being president of, uh, of, of NCSA back me back when I was the director of the Tennessee program. That was 30 years ago this year. I cannot believe it. That was 1995 when I was, when I was president of, of, of N-C-S-A-B. And, uh, we had a lot of challenges then too, that we were able to, to overcome just, just, just like we're having today, guys. When I was a director, um, you know, I I, I loved being a director and the challenges of, of, of running a state agency and, uh, was just, just something that, that, that, that kept me pumped up. Um, today things are a little different. Uh, what, what, what do you guys see as the biggest challenge today in, in running an agency for the blind?
Dorothy Young (25:17):
The biggest challenge, um, is, you know, I'm just gonna be really honest, is, is, um, working through the bureaucracy. Um, if, especially if you are a new, a new director, um, you're coming in and, uh, you got some great ideas and you're ready to, you know, to move mountains, uh, for people, uh, that just so happen to be living with blindness and you got a lot of bureaucracy, you got a lot of paperwork to do, got a lot of red tape. Um, and, and so that, that was a big challenge for me when I started in, in this role. Uh, another challenge is you got to make sure that you have enough resources for the needs that are out there. You know, right now there are a lot of needs of people that are living with, uh, disabilities. And, and so you have to make sure that you have resources out there, and resources is money, right? And, and that's one of the major challenges that all state agencies are facing right now is, is is having enough money to fund your rehabilitation vocational rehab program. Uh, Greg, what do you think?
Greg (26:21):
Well, absolutely, I think working through the bureaucracy is a real challenge. Our counselors come to our program because they wanna make a difference in people's lives, and yet we, and they encounter all of the bureaucratic paperwork that has to be done. And I think that's a huge challenge, and it, it really does make things more difficult when we wanna help people.
Terry (26:49):
You know, I've noticed that, that the bureaucracy, it just seems to get worse and worse. It's not something that, you know, it, it is not, it's always been there, but it seems to just be accumulating. Do you have, do you have any thoughts on why that, why that's happening? It's, I mean, and it is not just an, a state here, a state, there it is state level, it's it's county level, it's federal level. It just seems like the bureaucracy is just getting to be more and more of a problem.
Dorothy Young (27:16):
I think that, um, you know, everybody has, um, you know, their ideas of, of what, um, what what works, right? Um, and when you get to the nuts and bolts of vocational rehabilitation, um, it is a individualized program. Um, and so that means that as a counselor, and, and even though we are directors, um, majority of us started out working as a, as a counselor. So we worked in the field, uh, with the day-to-day of it. And, and so we know what it takes actually to, um, help individuals, you know, get a career. And, and so when you're dealing with, uh, people in, in the federal government, they're not down in the, uh, day-to-day of what a person is actually going through. And, and that's what we face as directors and state agencies. We, we are in the communities of people that we are trying to help succeed in life.
(28:17)
And, and so when you're at a federal level, and we are at a state level and a community level, working with individuals in their communities, dealing with many different barriers, um, those two have to communicate. And, and that's, that's really a, a, a challenge. Um, and that's for, that's what I see. So you can make a policy on a federal level, but to implement it on a state level and in a community, um, sometimes can be very challenging because each state is different. Um, when you're making those types of changes that are needed, um, um, throughout the country, that, that's what I see, um, that's happened, especially with WIOA.
Terry (28:57):
So, Greg, I'll, I'll ask you this one. Um, as, as we're, we are recording this on October 28th. Um, you'll come out on November the first. The government is shut down, the federal government is shut down. Uh, we're starting to see some of the impacts on the state level. Um, what, what, what are the special challenges, uh, for you as the executive director, the commission in trying to manage your program during a federal shutdown?
Greg (29:30):
One of the things that we really need in the vocation rehabilitation program is consistency. Consistency in our funding, predictability in funding budget so far in advance. And we plan so far in advance. When we have something like this, it makes that planning more difficult. In this particular situation, this shutdown is not a huge surprise. And as the director of an agency that is, um, very well supported by our legislature, we are able to access and draw down all of our federal funds, and we are able to carry over our federal fiscal 25 funds. So that's allowing us to continue operations. We also have state fundings here in New Mexico for our older blind program. So we're able to continue those services despite the shutdown. But we can't do that forever. And not all states are in this position. We're sitting older blind services having to shut down in other states. Some states are really beginning to look at the necessity for layoffs. Um, but it's a, it's a terrible challenge. And of course, federal employment is also a major, um, way of getting our consumers employed. So that opportunity is closed, and I think it creates a lot of anxiety, a lot of uncertainty. So it's, it's, um, difficult situation and we all are just doing the best we can to manage
Terry (31:11):
Doth. Is it the same in Mississippi? Are you guys able to keep things going?
Dorothy Young (31:15):
We are, we're able to keep things going. Uh, we're using some of our general funds, um, to maintain. Um, but as Greg said, um, it's the uncertainty, um, especially with, you know, RSA not being at work. Um, and you, you know, um, you're not getting any feedback, you know, from your federal partners. And, and so you are just kinda like, um, trying to keep all of your staff calm and, and, and your clients calm. And you gotta also think about your vendors come and continue to provide services. So, you know, we're in a, as a state director, um, you, you have to be confident in, in, in, in your role and stay positive, um, throughout all of this, knowing that, um, what you don't know, you know, we don't know what we don't know
Donation info (32:17):
Correct.
Dorothy Young (32:18):
Right. And, and so we are, we're staying positive and we are telling our staff to continue to work, to continue to serve your clients, and, uh, come to work every day. And we're still training and, uh, calling our vendors and, and, you know, going along knowing you got holidays coming up and staff are depending on you and looking at you, um, for answers. So it is, it is, um, uh, uncertainty times for all of us, but we do know that we have jobs and responsibility to our staff and to the clients that we are responsible for.
Terry (32:54):
Well, you mentioned, Greg, you mentioned the fact that some states are facing layoffs. I can tell you on the evening news last night, uh, in Nashville, there was a story that, uh, Tennessee is facing layoffs, and most of those will occur in the Department of Human Services, which is where the rehabilitation and services for the blind sits. So, um, they are, you know, really looking at that as a, as a real possibility. So we knew at some point it would trick trickle down, but let's get away from some of the stuff that's going on, you know, out there politically. I'm curious, and I really don't know the answer to this question, and they, you ought to know the answer before you asked the question, but I know during, um, COVID, all the numbers just dropped, uh, referrals dropped, closures dropped. Um, and are, have we, have, we, are we back where we staying as far as numbers, uh, as compared to pre COVID? Have we started to build back? Or, or what is the situation
Dorothy Young (33:55):
Break?
Greg (33:56):
You wanna Sure. We definitely have seen our numbers bounce back here after COVID. I think that we do have a, something of a boom or a bust cycle that can happen. So it's possible that the numbers will trend back down, but I'm hoping that we will see more consistency in our numbers that we'll begin to see, uh, people who are seeking our services. So COVID was a real challenge. It affected our spending, our ability to spend, uh, again, we really need consistency and the pandemic impact to that in a very negative way.
Dorothy Young (34:38):
Yeah. Um, and, and like Greg stated, they are, you know, during the COVID, especially in our older blind program, we did see a drastic number, uh, decrease in that program. Um, we are, um, seeing that program rebuild, um, uh, in our older blind program. So we are seeing those numbers increase in our older blind program and our, uh, regular VR program. We are seeing an increase in those numbers also. Um, uh, we will like to see an uptick in our, uh, training numbers and in our transition numbers. So even though during COVID, we did see a drop in our PREED numbers, 'cause, you know, all, everything was closed, and those preed numbers did see a decrease because, uh, students like in person. And, and so, um, they didn't, you know, take too well to all of the Zoom. I think everybody was, you know, zoomed out, um, and, and didn't like all of that. So now since we've gone back to the in-person, um, we have seen an increase in those pre-ex activities. And we are looking, um, to see, uh, a lot more of those activities being, uh, increased. And those numbers are gonna start increasing now, especially those, uh, student numbers.
Terry (35:54):
What are you seeing in terms of referrals to Randolph Shepherd? Are, are, are they up, are you having trouble, are they down?
Dorothy Young (36:01):
Uh, Randolph Shepherd referrals? Um, I'm seeing an increase in those referrals, um, and I'm seeing an increase in the, uh, age. Uh, and that's a good thing. I will tell you that. Um, and, and so, um, especially, um, you know, because in, usually in that program as, as you all know, individuals stay in that program. I think my longest serving vendor in that program had been in it for I think, 55 or 56 years. So, um, we got 'em coming in the program now at 24 and 25-year-old. So we are seeing an increase in our youth in that program. And I think it's gonna be a, a better increase because we're gonna see a push in introducing that in our pre-employment transition program. And that's one of the things that N-C-S-A-B is going to, um, push. Um, as in our membership, uh, organization is introducing our Randolph Shepper program and pre-employment transition services.
Greg (37:02):
And the same here in New Mexico. We just had the National Federation of Blind State Convention, one of our business enterprise program managers presented there about the benefits of the BEP program. And we definitely are seeing a greater interest with respect to younger individuals. And also we are placing our pre-employment transition services students with some of our vendors. So it's, it is something that we are seeing more of.
Terry (37:34):
Good deal. Um, so as you sort of answered this question, I, I'll give you a chance to sort of build on it if you'd like. Uh, Nikki talks about the gray tsunami. Um, and when we travel around the country, you know, when we, and we're speaking at annual training conferences and things, you know, it's obvious that we have an aging population. And, and, and Ms. Young, you mentioned that, what strategies do you think we should implement or are you using to try to address that gray tsunami? 'cause the folks are just gonna be leaving the program in droves here. Uh, I think it's already started, but over the next few years, they're gonna be a lot more. How do we address that?
Dorothy Young (38:14):
Well, um, I, you address it with your youth, um, uh, with, uh, and you address it with, um, a, uh, a better awareness of the program. Like, um, you know, everybody thinks of vending, you know, but Randolph Shepherd is much more than the vending, right? And, um, and I think, um, you guys at NABM have already started addressing it. And the new tag, the technical assistance circular from RSA addressed it also being innovative. So we have to start stepping outside state licensing agency and thinking outside of the box of Randolph Shepherd and, and not just saying vending only. There are other Randolph Shepherd businesses out there that some of our vendors have already done that. Uh, we brought up at our, uh, Randolph Shepherd training annual training this year at the conference, that some of our vendors have no idea that our vendors are doing.
(39:07)
And it's not just vending only. So one of the things that I think that we should do is not just focus on vening as, as the, you know, as the business. There are other Randolph Shepherd businesses out there. We reach our youth through our pre-employment transition program, and it, Randolph Shepherd is a training program. So when you talking about training, Randolph Shepherd is a training, you're gonna get a credential for it when you, uh, uh, send that client through Serve Safe training, make it a requirement, SLAs that all blind vendors get serve safe training, that is a credential. It could be a measurable skill game for your clients with the SLA get credit for it. So there're just different ways that you can think outside of the box that you can introduce Randolph Shepherd to individuals that could, you know, increase, um, our number of vendors in the program. But the, the first way is, is to introduce it to our youth. And not just vending, it's all in how you bring the awareness of the program, how you sail the program.
Greg (40:10):
I think also, we are a victim of our own success here. The vocation rehabilitation program has expanded the kinds of opportunities that our consumers can seek to, uh, and achieve in terms of employment outcomes. And that really does make it more difficult to track, attract people into the Randolph Shepherd program. But I think the opportunities that are present at Randolph Shepherd are just so significant that we have to find ways to communicate those opportunities to our consumers in New Mexico. We have a counselor with a dedicated Randolph Shepherd caseload and really specializing in trying to help our consumers to make their informed choice in a way that considers the Randolph She Program.
Terry (41:01):
I'd like to hear from both of you on this. Um, and, and I'm gonna be really interested in your answer. Um, the vending program can be a challenge, let's just say it like it is. And, um, you know, a lot of people, uh, do not enjoy it. You know, I fell in love with it when I was, when I was a director. I, what, what do you find as the biggest challenge as a state administrator of also running a vending facility program? You're basically running a multimillion dollar business within state. Just, just that alone makes it almost impossible. Um, so what's, what's your biggest challenge in, in running the Randolph Shepherd program in state government?
Dorothy Young (41:44):
I plead the fifth. No, I'll pass it to you, Greg first.
Greg (41:48):
Oh, I'm sorry. I had trouble hearing you. You, you fade a little bit. So, here in New Mexico, I think the biggest challenge is those instances in which we have a private vendor who has been dislocated or is somehow wanting a facility that we're in, and communicating the fact that we have this priority and we have it in place for really good reasons, and it benefits the state, uh, because we can expedite processing, because we can provide quality services, because we can avoid some of the opportunities for misuse or abuse that can happen when you have facilities that see vending as an opportunity to have a kind of cash fund, a party fund or some other, um, uh, thing that really isn't consistent with what vending in public bill public building should be.
Dorothy Young (42:50):
So just piggyback off of that, when a, when the Randolph Shepherd applies to a facility and that facility that a private company has had that priority there, that opportunity there for years. And when the SLA attempts to, you know, obtain that opportunity, it is, you know, it, it is really hard to get that opportunity, you know, and that's, that's one of the biggest challenges here that I have faced. And when I took over the role as the director here, the Mini Randolph Shepherd Act, um, had not been, um, uh, recognized here in, in, you know, a very lucrative, um, locations here that could have, you know, that our blind vendors could have been, you know, reaping the ven benefits from. And I have some very good blind vendors that are, you know, that are excellent, uh, business, um, small business, uh, entrepreneurs doing very well. But we were not afforded that opportunity, had those vendors. Um, the state, um, acknowledged that many Randolph Shepherd our program would've been way ahead here. And so that's one of the biggest challenges that I face here, trying to get that priority recognized, um, here. And, and that's, you know, one of the things that I, I'm just working, you know, right now, trying to get it recognized.
Terry (44:19):
Uh, I think, um, the, uh, my experience is that when local politics intersects with Randolph Shepherd, it never turns out well. And, um, so that's sort of along the lines with, uh, with, with what you're talking about there, Dorothy. So, um,
Greg (44:34):
Gary, if I could
Terry (44:34):
Carry another Yeah, go ahead, Greg. Mm-hmm
Greg (44:36):
Terry (44:51):
Oh, yeah.
Greg (44:52):
Or they want some other service or food, and they're not understanding that it has to be profitable, and it has to really be worth the while for our vendor to participate. So communicating that, explaining why we can't put a, you know, a cafeteria facility in a particular building is an issue. And we also see a lot more competition, competition that we didn't have 25 or 30 years ago from the myriad of fast casual dining and other, uh, kinds of facilities that are often nearby some of our public buildings. So that's a real challenge.
Terry (45:31):
Oh yeah. People and 300 people in a building and they want a food court, you know, it, it's just hard, it's hard to explain to them that it's a, that, that it's a business. Let, let's get to the, the issue that is just dominating my time and Nikki's time and, uh, at, at the present. And, and, and, and even you guys, to a certain extent, uh, you guys are aware of the letter that the Secretary of War, Pete Hex sent to the Secretary of Education asking for a waiver from the Randolph Shepherd Act. Um, and his comments about, uh, that our blind vendors provide inferior service at inflated prices. And then most recently, the Secretary of the Army, uh, has been quoted in news articles and on podcasts, uh, as just making some outlandish allegations about our program. Um, so you guys are there, you both have military dining contracts, and what experience have you had with providing poor quality or how, how, how prevalent are the complaints you get about poor quality and, you know, how much complaints do you have about the, the, you know, the pricing being inflated? Can you just sort of tell us about your experiences in your state start? Either one of you take that, or both of you?
Dorothy Young (46:52):
Well, um, for me, um, we have three, uh, military contracts here. Um, my blind vendors at, um, both, all three of my contracts. One is, um, Mr. Robert Cotton. He has the, um, the National Guard Camp Shelby, um, uh, the contracting officer there is, uh, contracting officer, Colonel Obby. I have his cell phone number. We direct negotiate. I, we have no complaints there if there are any complaints at that, um, location. He calls me. He texts me hardly any, none. The food service there. We don't have any complaints. Um, uh, Mr. Cotton, uh, is on his way there now. He text me this morning, my blind vendor. Um, he goes at least, um, two to three times a month, uh, um, every holiday. Um, he has an appreciation for his employees. Um, he purchases the food there at Camp Shelby. Um, that's between him and his accountant. And, um, I can tell you that those prices are not inflated.
(48:00)
He goes over the contract, he and his attorney, and, um, and we direct negotiate that contract, uh, every contract period. Uh, we just finished direct through negotiating that contract. And, um, like I said, I have the cell phone, personal cell phone number of the contracting officer there. So we are on good standing basis there. Um, Meridian is Mr. Eddie Turner. He just got awarded, um, um, an outstanding, um, uh, naval award there at Meridian. He and, uh, um, his, uh, teaming partner there. And, um, same thing, um, there, um, with that, uh, um, military contract, no complaints there. His employees, um, were, was at our, uh, annual conference. Uh, Eddie, uh, signed his contract direct negotiated. Um, there also no problems. Keesler Air Force Base, um, blind vendor as Mr. Floyd Austin as the personal cell phone of Mr. Paul Bennett. That's the contracting officer there. We direct negotiated there.
(49:07)
Um, also, if there are any problems with that contract, Mr. Bennett calls me, texts me. Um, there has been no issues with food services at any of my, uh, military contracts. Um, the blind vendors there, um, they are present on those military basis. And if there are any issues, they contact the state licensing agency because we are the prime holder of those contracts. Um, and I do the same with all of my contracting offices. Uh, one of the things that I try to ensure with the blind vendors that work those contracts is that they make sure that they stay in contact with those military, uh, contracting offices. Uh, we have rewritten our rules here in Mississippi. Um, and, and so it will be a much, um, more documentation from my, um, vendors, uh, making sure that they actively participate. But the communication from that letter, that from the Department of Defense, I wholeheartedly disagree with it because we don't have any complaints from our military. Um, the state licensing agency here works with the military, and like I said, um, I have all of 'em, cell phone numbers, we talk texts, direct negotiate, and at any time, if they're not satisfied with the services, um, on those contracts, they'll let me know and we handle it. And, and that's the American way. Um,
Terry (50:49):
Greg (50:52):
Here in New Mexico, we have the Kirtland Air Force Base vendor, Mr. Robert Vick. He does a fantastic job. They love him there. He has won the Hennessy Prize Gold Plate Awards, uh, does a fantastic job, is really dedicated. It is his life and the way in which we provide services to the military. It's, it's something that we're proud of, and we absolutely provide fantastic service. And I hope that the Secretary of Defense, secretary of the Army will tour our facilities, really learn about what we do, discover the facts, and that we provide great service, rapid service, quick purchasing, effective good services.
Terry (51:41):
Yeah, I think it's, I think it's really interesting that the, on the contracting level, the everybody likes to directly negotiate it. They have more say in the pricing that way. They guarantee that the government's getting a fair price. Um, they like the process, but when it reaches DC it seems like, uh, a to a totally different situation. I just wanna add, while we're, while we're, while we're here, the, the HX letter was not, you know, was not supposed to be made public. It was leaked to us. A lot of folks, um, you know, are not happy with, with, with, with what he's trying to do. Um, and I'll just say, you know, we sort of were ringing our hands trying to figure out what to do with it once it was sent to us. Uh, I do appreciate Ncsab B'S efforts. Uh, when we got the letter, we, we, we, we did share it with, uh, Ms. Young as your president as N-C-S-A-B president and shared it with Katrina McDonald, who's your policy advisor.
(52:37)
Uh, and appreciate what you guys have been doing in terms of, uh, trying to educate folks. I'm not gonna say lobby or advocate, I'm just gonna say what you're trying to do to educate folks about the impact that this could have on, on, on Randolph Shepherd. Uh, I do want to ask you some, some of the comments that have been made. I, I think it's a really critical, and, and that our vendors, and I think Ms. Young, you, you referenced this, uh, but I just want to add add point to it. I think it's critical that our guys are, are involved, and I think we have a problem in many areas, not just military dining, where vendors are absentee vendors and third parties are, are, are running everything. Um, and just, you're, just real quickly, we're running out of time here, but your sort of reaction to this whole issue, this, I I call it an epidemic of third parties, uh, uh, maybe an overstatement, but what, what's your reaction to that?
Dorothy Young (53:42):
Well, um, you know, I know that, um, especially with the, with, you know, with the comments saying that, you know, um, they get the, uh, the, a grandmother or something to invoke or something that the, the comments that, that was
Terry (53:57):
Made irrevocable trust with the blind grandmother.
Dorothy Young (53:59):
Yeah. Okay. So if, if our vendors, if they was actually seeing our vendors out there working, then you would know that they would not have a grandmother out there doing that. Right? Or you, uh, just, I just think that if people would actually see who was actually running these businesses, then this would, this would've not have gone as far as it had have gone. That's, that's my opinion. Um, the whole point of the Randolph Shepherd Act is to give individuals who are blind opportunities for, um, um, working. And this is, and I've been a counselor before, and I've said this before, and I've found individuals who were blind, visually impaired employment. This is the only employment. You guys that I was a, I did not have a problem putting them to work when other businesses said no to my clients, this one said yes. So I know that it works.
(55:05)
And they did not shut the door in my client face when this was our, basically our last resort to get him a job. He was getting ready to get married and he had to have a job. And we put him in the Randolph Shepherd program. He was at that program, ran that cafeteria in Vicksburg for Evan Day, provided for him and his family, and, and this is what it was for. But he showed up every day to work. And so when individuals actually see our individuals blind working, we had no problems. So that's why I encourage individuals when they get in the Randolph Shepherd program to actively participate. I don't have a problem with them, with anyone getting a third party to help them with their business. I don't, but you make sure that you still the person that's running it, that they see you at the business. And, and so that's why I want them to actively participate and be the face of their business. And, and so that's why I, you know, work with the vendors to make sure that they're leading, they're leading their business. 'cause it's a lot of individuals that pay the way for Randolph Shepherd program. It's a lot of a, a lot of people that pave the way for this priority to be in effect.
Terry (56:26):
Well, let's go to Greg before you go to preach and, and people who were at Blast know, you can preach with the best of them. So
Greg (56:33):
Dorothy is wonderful. And I, I really agree here because we have to make sure that our vendors are, in fact, the face of their program that their customers associate, the quality food they get with the blind vendor. If the blind vendor is simply sitting at home and going to the mailbox and getting a check, that's not happening. And the whole purpose of the program is lost. And it's a program that helps line individuals become employed. And I would underscore the employed. And if they're not actually working, then I think it just undermines the whole premise of the program.
Terry (57:19):
Well, Greg, we used to call them mailbox vendors, but now with direct deposit, we call 'em a CH vendors.
Greg (57:45):
Future. Well, Doris is thinking about that. I'll, I'll, I'll jump in here. I think we see so much in the way of technology, the micro marks, many markets, the kiosks, the opportunities that are out there. I really think that we need to do everything we can to find ways to take fullest advantage of that technology and find ways to, um, help our vendors to really become informed on that and to make sure that we're marketing everything in a way that, um, maximizes the use of technology. It's going to and is radically changing everything and we just need to be fully on board.
Terry (58:31):
Yeah. 100%. Dorothy,
Dorothy Young (58:34):
Same here. And, and you know, you know, I thought about this, um, when you asked about, you know, how can we, uh, address the, you know, the, um, the increasing of the individuals in the Randolph Shepherd program. I would love to see, um, you know, some TikTok, you know, some of our vendors own TikTok or are, um, social media. Um, 'cause like Greg stated, technology is, is driving. Um, and it is out there. And that is a huge market. Um, and that's, that's what people, you know, that's, that's what people go to for everything Now. If you wanna learn anything, find out about anything, go to TikTok Instagram, and, and that's where it's, so that's where you all need to go. NAB.
Terry (59:29):
Okay. I, and that's my weak link. And I, I don't, I don't disagree with you, Greg. I got 30 seconds. I gotta tell people, we talk about innovation and doing things differently and thinking outside the box, and, you know, I, I'll self plug, I help both of you guys rewrite your state rules. Um, but in your state, uh, there's something really unique. And with, with the, um, um, state use law, and we built into your rules, and they haven't been promulgated yet, I understand, but we built into your rules, the opportunity for a blind vendor to do state use contracts, uh, as, as a, as a vending facility. Can you just in 30 seconds, sort of tell us about that unique aspect that you guys have in New Mexico?
Greg (01:00:13):
Yes, there are state use programs across the country. They normally give state contracts to community rehabilitation programs. But here in New Mexico and also Maryland, we have individuals as private entrepreneurs. We call them qualified individuals. They can receive those contracts. I like to call it the Randolph Shepherd Act on Steroids. Great program. And if we can help integrate that into our Randolph Shepherd Act, I think it'll make even more opportunities available.
Terry (01:00:42):
That, and that is exactly what we're trying to do with the Ability One program on the federal level. Uh, we met with them back several years ago. They were excited about it, and then they got, it got stonewalled because of some internal problems that were happening. And then, um, they started reworking legislation and then the election happened, and this administration came in and it all got stopped. But that's still something at the, you know, a long-term goal of NMS is to see the, uh, ability One program opened up so that they could award contracts not just to nonprofits, but to businesses owned by blind folks. So guys, I just wanna tell you how much I truly appreciate you guys being here. It's been a blast. And, uh, uh, we will, uh, be in, um, uh, San Diego, San Antonio, I mean, not San San Diego. We'll be in San Diego, um, very shortly. And Nikki and I are both gonna be there and get to speak to the group. So, uh, uh, really looking forward to that. And, uh, uh, so we're looking forward to being with you in, uh, um, in San Diego in a, in, in a week or so. Uh, talking more about Randolph Shepherd, CNO Friends. Uh, and once again, thank you so much for, uh, for, for participating in this, uh, in, in our podcast. And we will talk to you guys later.
Dorothy Young (01:02:02):
Thank you.
Greg (01:02:03):
Thank you.
Terry (01:02:04):
All right guys. Appreciate it. Good job. Real good job. Thank you, Terry. Okay, bye bye. So that will do it for the November episode of the We Are Randolph Shepherd podcast, Nikki and I thank you for joining us and hope you'll join us again in December when the next episode falls our Christmas edition. So until then, talk to you later.
Sponsors (01:02:27):
The we are Randolph Shepherd Podcast would like to thank our sponsors, the National Association of Blind Merchants, Blackstone Consulting, Southern Food Service, Sodexo in Reach, Greenway Paper supplies, Coca-Cola Tyler Technologies. You selected cantaloupe Curate Dr. Pepper and commissary services of Nashville.
Donation info (01:02:57):
If you would like to support the We Are Randolph Shepherd podcast, we would love to have you on board. Corporate sponsors may contact Nikki gecos@nikkicolorado.netscape.net. Individuals who would like to support the podcast may do so by donating to the National Association of Blind Merchants at www dot blind merchants do org. We would love to have your support.