This month Nicky is mad as Hell but puts that behind him and he and Terry discuss building collaboration with RSA.
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We are Randolph Shepherd Podcast. We're Randolph Shepherd podcast.
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This is the
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We are Randolph Shepherd podcast, promoting blind entrepreneurship and Independence. And now here's the dynamic duo, Nikki Geicos and Terry Smith
Nikki Geicos (00:26):
Welcome everyone to episode 21 of, we are Randolph Shepherd, and of course we need to thank our sponsors. 'cause without them we couldn't do this podcast. The National Association of Blind Merchants, Coca-Cola, PepsiCo Sodexo, you selected Southern Food Service. Tyler Technologies, Anderson Food Service, RSA Management Group, Siteline Wealth Management, and Cantaloupe. Gary, how are you?
Terry Smith (00:57):
I'm doing great, Tre to have cantaloupe on board as a new sponsor. Uh, glad to see them. And you guys a pretty impressive list folks, uh, that, that have, that have jumped on board, and, uh, we appreciate it. 'cause like you said, we couldn't do it without them. Nikki, I wanna start out, uh, with, with a shout out to the kids at the Tennessee School for the Blind. And, um, when, when I was a director in Tennessee, we started a program to where the vending at the School for the Blind. Uh, we, we turned that over to the junior class at the School for the Blind. And the, uh, it is under a temporary assignment with them as the, and, and they operate that vending, and they take the money and the, they file reports, they do everything just like a regular vending facility. They have a business curriculum they go through, they learn all about the program, and then, uh, the money is used to help pay for their senior trip.
Terry Smith (01:52):
And, uh, listening to the We Are Rand Ship podcast is a class assignment. So they are listening to us. They've listened to us every month. And I just wanna shout out to the kids at the school, full blood that are listening to this and hope that, uh, when you get outta school and you start looking for a, a good career that, uh, you know, you look at Randolph Shepherd, sometimes we can be negative about things and, but, you know, this is still the greatest opportunity there is. If you wanna be self-employed and you wanna make good money, then we hope you guys are gonna think about Randolph Shepherd. So, just congratulations to you guys in Nashville. We're proud of you.
Nikki Geicos (02:29):
We're proud of you. And someday Terry might have to have one of 'em or, or all of 'em on the podcast.
Terry Smith (02:33):
You know, that'd be a great thing to do, wouldn't it? Yep. Yeah. Uh, so, uh, we, we, we, we may just do that sometime. Um, so, um, last night was Halloween. Nikki, what'd you do?
Nikki Geicos (02:46):
Well, no one came to our house, so there's too much candy left over. But, um, um, I went to the in morning and worked out and saw a lot people ins even people been one of my favorite ho holidays. I like the, the, i I, this time of year I start to, like, when things are decorated and whether it's moms or scary things or whatever, Halloween's always been a fun thing. Um, you know, I I, I heard a joke yesterday, Terry, about Halloween. It said, you know, is it AAAA Democratic, um, joke or, uh, holiday or is it a Republican type of thing? A Democratic Republican, you know, it says it could be where people go knock on doors and ask for free food. That could be a Democrat. And then somebody else said, my father always said, he told us early that whatever we brought home, he took 10% of.
Nikki Geicos (03:33):
And we used to get mad. He said, well, that's the way taxes are. So if you don't like taxes, vote against it, type of thing. But
Terry Smith (04:26):
Well, I sort of miss Halloween. Uh, I live in a high rise now, highrise, seven floors. And it's a condo. We get zero trick or treaters. Um, I was actually, uh, my mom lives in the neighborhood and I was talking to her last night at 10 35. And she freaks out. The doorbell rings and umm talking to her, and she, it scares her 10 35. That's sure. And, and so I go on the doorbell camera, I can, I can pull it up. Literally. There are two kids, about seven and five years old at 10 35 out trick or treating. And, uh, they had more candy in that bucket than they could ever eat. So, uh, um, that was, um, a little surprising to me to see, see 'em out, send
Terry Smith (05:14):
And so, you know, I I, I keep my mom's, uh, security cameras, you know, on my phone. So, uh, but my kids, they go, they go big time. I mean, the whole family does. I think, uh, my son in South Carolina, his whole family, they were, uh, Pokemon car characters and they go all out. And then my son and his wife, uh, in Texas and their kids now, my son was, let's see, they were daylight, let's say day and night, I think is what they were. Now that's a pretty cool costume. One of them was daytime and one of them was not. It's hardly describe their costumes, but it was pretty clever. So, um, anyway, so big, big time usually with, uh, with the kids. And, you know, I miss being, being around that. I always love the trick or treaters. But, uh, so with the end of Halloween, that means daylight savings time is here. Are you, are you a are you a fan or not?
Nikki Geicos (06:03):
I am not. 'cause it gets too dark, uh, too early. I like it. I like the day to extend a little bit, but I do, you know, the mornings get a little lighter, but I don't like it 'cause it gets dark too early and all of a sudden it's four 30 at night and it's dark. But, um, so it, I'm not a fan of it. And then I get confused in certain parts of Indiana and Arizona, what time it really is. So, um, I, I'd like you to, I'm glad that they extended it. I remember when it used to be earlier and, and then it always started later, back in, you know, in April. Now it's March. So I liked it, the shortness of it, and like that extra hour sleep, I could use it.
Terry Smith (06:38):
Yeah, I agree with you. I, I, I like the extra daylight in the evenings. Of course, I'm not a morning person. Everybody listens to this, probably knows that. Um, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a night owl, and I like the extra time at night and it just makes it even harder to get going in the, in, in the mornings for me. But, um, yeah, it is what it is. And we just have to adjust and quick, quick quit whining about it, I guess. So Nikki, I guess we can at least do a quick check on our, on, on our football predictions for the year. I don't think, uh, um, my college picks for the national champion are out the door door. Um, I picked the University of Southern California in honor of Joe Blackstone, and they are not gonna win the national championship. I don't even remember Who'd you pick?
Nikki Geicos (07:21):
I picked Michigan, so I'm still alive.
Terry Smith (07:23):
Oh yeah, you're good. You're good. Yeah. Yeah, they're Chris. They, they, they may be in trouble if they get, they let 'em play, but, um, they are, they're, they got a really good team. So, uh,
Nikki Geicos (07:35):
And, and I also said the PAC 10 would be good. So I'm looking good there, because I think they have four or five in the top 15, right? So they
Terry Smith (07:41):
Do, they do. They're the powerhouse here. They're, they're, they're really good.
Nikki Geicos (07:45):
It was funny, I actually asked Joe Blackstone today, I spoke to 'em today, and I said, how's your net? He said, what are you talking about? I said, watching the team go up and down the field both ways. I mean, they've had some, I mean, they beat California. They what, 50 to 49. And he laughed. He said, we have no defense. I said, well, that's true. You have no defense. And they actually play Washington in Oregon the next two weeks. So I said, good luck to you, Joe. So, um, your season's over, so, yeah,
Terry Smith (08:15):
Yeah, I, I did it to him. I did it to him, but hey, are still, are still, you know, they're alive. I picked, uh, San Francisco and they're, you know, they're, they sort of stumbled here of late, but they're still looking pretty good. And Buffalo, I don't know why I picked them, but there's, they still have a chance.
Nikki Geicos (08:33):
Yeah. And I got Baltimore and Detroit and Detroit look pretty good on Monday night. And, uh, Baltimore goes up and down and they played each other and Baltimore killed them. So at least we're still alive, Terry, we're still alive.
Terry Smith (08:45):
And we both picked, uh, the Texas Rangers and the Arizona Diamondbacks in the World Series, didn't we?
Nikki Geicos (08:50):
We did. Yeah, we did. We picked Texas to win it.
Terry Smith (08:56):
I actually went back and listened to the beginning of the April podcast. I said, I don't remember us picking World Series teams, and we didn't actually pick who was gonna win the World
Nikki Geicos (09:04):
Series. You know, I I, I, I do have to give a shout out to, uh, Michael Colburn from Minnesota. He actually, in the beginning of the year, picked the Arizona Diamondbacks. Um, doesn't look so good for him now, but he actually picked the Arizona Diamondbacks to win it all. And we laughed at him. And, and, you know, and so, but so a good shout out to Mike for picking Arizona to, to, to, to go that far.
Terry Smith (09:28):
Well, he's a, he's a fan. And for those of you who are wondering, we're recording this on November 1st. We're a couple days late getting this out, uh, for, for some unforeseen circumstances. Um, but the Rangers lead three to one and are getting ready to start. Uh, I guess it'd be game five now, so, uh, uh, it's not over till it's over, but, uh, good, good, good pick. Mikey, you know, be being the fan, being the Diamondbacks fan. He is. So, uh, Nikki, every, um, ev every month, we, we talk about, um, um, you know, what's up. Uh, so you get about 20 seconds to say what's up. So what's up with you?
Nikki Geicos (10:07):
Well, what's up with me is what's up with you? How's your weight? Last time we talked, I, you know, my agent has me that I'm off every four months, which he actually said, uh, he may want me to come back and do the blitz with you. Um, but last time I talked to you, you were gonna, what's up was your weight. And so what's up with me is what's up with you? How's your weight doing? You were gonna give up those french fries. I wanna know if you didn't, how's your weight to it?
Terry Smith (10:29):
Well, now listen, I only promised to give up french fries for the month of September. And I, and, and, and, and so, you know, I did a good job in September. So I've, I've, I've had a few french fries this month, but I'm hanging in there. I'm, I'm about, I'm about, um, about where I was at at the end of September. So I'm, I'm not bad. I'm not bad. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm fairly pleased. I'd like to still lose three or four pounds, but not, not, I don't wanna lose 'em bad enough to actually work at doing it. But
Nikki Geicos (10:58):
What's up with you, ter? What's up with you, buddy?
Terry Smith (11:01):
Well, um, you know, just, just, you know, a lot going on with family and, and, and, and, and looking forward now to, to, to the holidays and, you know, had some issues with my mom and got her home and got her situated, and she's still doing, uh, she, she's still doing great, and we're getting ready to head into the holidays and, uh, gonna spend some time in Hilton Head and going to, you know, just, just, you know, just looking forward to, to Thanksgiving and looking forward to a great Christmas. And, you know, like you said earlier, I think, um, you know, Halloween sort of signals the beginning of, you know, all the, all the festivities. And so, you know, that's really about it. Uh, you know, nothing, nothing really dynamic going on that, uh, um, that, that I need to bring up at this point. But, uh, just, uh, hopeful for, for, for, for what, for what lies ahead.
Nikki Geicos (11:51):
So, Terry, before we get to tonight's topic, um, I was watching a, a, a, I saw a clip of an old movie from almost 50 years ago, a movie called Network, where they said, I'm mad as hell, you need to do something about it. And I, I, I watched it and I said, wow, that reminds me of a lot of things going on now. And I just gotta get a couple things off of a, uh, my chest here. And I know we still got this issue with APHIS that we're, we're, we're still struggling with and stuff. And, you know, we went out to Wisconsin, um, a couple weeks ago. It was the first time we ever attended a Wisconsin State meeting. And, you know, the nominee didn't give a report, which really upset us that, you know, that they did not do those the first time they met in three years.
Nikki Geicos (12:31):
Um, and it, the new committee out there with Theresa Taylor and Terry Campbell, um, and, and Janet Dickey really working hard to get some answers from the agency. And it just, just the way that, for the nominee not to give a report when they said, uh, they were supposed to give one Friday night, and they said, oh, we're not gonna give a report tonight that we're just gonna network. And I felt sorry for the vendors who came and went to that and stuff. And I think that, you know, in, in this day and age, we, we went through this a little bit with South Carolina, and we're, we're hoping that, that they work things out. And I'm a little more upset than a lot of other people about that. But, you know, and a little bit with, with RSA, not having a com, a committee meeting at N-C-S-A-B, which is going on right now this week in Savannah, Georgia, and not even have a committee chairperson from the agencies.
Nikki Geicos (13:19):
Those are the kind of things that make me mad and wanna do something about it. And you, and you know, me and you know us, um, with a, between you and I and our team, we will do something about it. But, you know, it's just, you know, here we are coming into holiday season and, and we got a lot of strife in the world right now going on, um, which is just ugly and stuff. And we really need to work together. I know I say that all the time, but it's just so much easier when agency and vendors work together. I mean, you know, blind entrepreneurs work very hard, um, in their businesses. Um, I'm one of 'em, so I know I've been struggling the past few months since they've closed half my post office, uh, to get back, to get more people to come up with creative ideas and look for new opportunities. But when we work together, it just works so much better for everybody. So it, I'm gonna make up a Christmas list next year when we do the podcast. And one of the Christmas lists is that agencies and blind vendors could work together just to make life easier. Otherwise, I'm gonna be mad as hell. I'm gonna do something about it. So, Terry, let's talk about tonight's subject, and I'll leave that to you and we'll talk about that. So
Clip form the Network (14:27):
I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window, open it, and stick your head out and yell. I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take this anymore.
Terry Smith (14:44):
Terry Smith (14:46):
So you, you said you were mad as hell from the network. I pulled it up real fast. And that's the famous scene from, uh, from, from the, from the movie. And, uh, that was, um, that was from the movie. You, that movie is almost 50 years old now. And, um, uh, but, uh, you know, I, I think I, I understand, I understand where you're coming from, Nikki. I think, uh, you know, Wisconsin, um, has established a new bar for, for, for dysfunction. Um, and, and you didn't really talk about what's going on out there, but, um, the agency, uh, has taken the position that they cannot communicate with the committee because it violates open meetings acts. They're not allowed to send them emails. They are not allowed to have conversations with them. The only time that they can have a conversation with the committee is at their regular committee meetings, and they can only talk about topics that are listed on the agenda.
Terry Smith (15:51):
And if it's not listed on the agenda, they can't discuss it. Now, that's not unusual. We see that a lot, but to take the position that you cannot even answer a question, an email question, uh, you're not able to communicate. You're not able to, to, to make a phone call and ask somebody a question or talk to them about anything that is a new level of, um, dysfunction that I never thought we would see. And, you know, vendors not getting along with agencies and agencies resenting vendors, you know, that's been around as long as, as as long as forever. And you know, where, where, where, where they wanna work together, they, they work together and it works, and it's successful. Um, but to, to take this extreme position, and I hope, I hope our vendors are listening to this, that, that out there to know that, you know, this could happen in your state, that if the agency just wants to shut you out and just wants to shut you down, that's what they're gonna do. And, you know, states have forever used the Open Meetings Act as a way to control the committees, but, uh, this is just, um, a brand, a brand new level. And I know that, um, you know, you've had conversations and, uh, we've had conversations about what needs to be done about that. And I think, um, you know, that's something, something has to be done that, that
Nikki Geicos (17:14):
Absolutely,
Nikki Geicos (17:16):
Absolutely. And, and the sad thing is that we were there and everything seemed fine. And now, you know, it came out, well, you know, this, we've had a committee for seven years before this, and everything was fine. And now all of a sudden this new committee is just asking questions, which we've seen that are legitimate questions. They're not hard questions about financials and about some other things. And then to get this, that they can't answer anything. I mean, that just takes any type of active participation, just throws it right out the window. So when you yell, I'm made as hell. That's what I'm made about there.
Terry Smith (17:48):
Yeah. Well, let, let, let's turn into, you know, a little more positive, uh, direction here. And, and I think what we're gonna do the rest of the time is sort of, uh, we had mentioned back, um, previously that we were gonna meet with the assistant secretary of, um, the, uh, oars Office of Special Education Rehabilitation, the person that's appointed, uh, by the White House to oversee RSA and other, uh, special ed programs. And, um, you reached out to, uh, Ms. Gallo, who is the, um, newly appointed assistant secretary. She was gracious enough to convene a meeting, you and I, uh, and Jeff k Klock from, uh, the National Federation of Blind Center, uh, went to Washington, sat down and, and, and had a really, really good meeting. And, uh, we're gonna talk a little bit about some of the things that we, we discussed, uh, at that meeting. Uh, but I thought, I, I thought it was a, a, a good dialogue. Um, and, and, and, and a good first stint. What'd you think,
Nikki Geicos (18:51):
Terry? I couldn't agree more. You know, we, um, you know, from the last assistant secretary who was acting, we sent a letter to Katie Neon, never got a response. And we sent this letter to, uh, Jenna Gallo, and she responded within an hour, which shocked me. Then I sent an email three weeks later and said, you were great when we first responded, but now we haven't heard anything about our meeting. And the next thing you know, the meeting was set up the next day. So, and it was in person, which was huge. I thought, too, it's so much better when you could see and talk and dialogue. And, and I thought the meeting was very positive. Um, in fact, we have a follow-up meeting coming up later in mid-November, um, which we're very excited about. And we were promised to have a working meeting coming up in January or February, early in, in 2024.
Nikki Geicos (19:36):
So very positive looking at in any type of things like that. And we basically told the assistant secretary, I, I told her, I just don't want to go to a meeting to go to a meeting. I wanna come out with results. And she said, I'm the same type of person. And the follow-up has been good on their end. So, very excited about moving forward. And, and, and thank you and Jeff for coming. It was great to have the three of you there. Um, and stuff. And some of the, some of the, I thought some of the things were pretty funny when, you know, when she said, well, have you asked these questions about they, and I guess the agencies had asked questions about N-C-S-A-B, about two RSA and said, were any of those your questions? I said, we're still waiting seven months from the questions we gave.
Nikki Geicos (20:15):
David Steele, who was, who was in the meeting, um, to answer those questions. She kind of like shrugged her shoulders, I guess, or made a comment. I forget what it was, but I think we'll start to get some of those answers too. But I thought the meeting was very positive and look forward to working with, uh, the assistant secretary and her team. Um, I thought that we got, it was all positive from everybody who was at the meeting, including, uh, Carol Beck and Corin and, um, Jen, I mean, and, uh, Corina, so very, and David Steele. So very excited about that.
Terry Smith (20:48):
So, um, and I won't take, I won't, I won't name names, but, uh, as we're recording this, the, uh, national Council of State Agencies for the Blind are having their fall meeting in Savannah. And, uh, I got a phone call, uh, earlier today, and one of the people that was in the meeting wasn't speaking about Randolph Shepherd specifically, but then did make a point to raise up r raise the issue of Randolph Shepherd, and made the point that we understand and realized that something needs to be done to modernize the Randolph Shepherd Program, which was our, one of our major themes. We went into the meeting and, and the person that called was confused, where, where did that come from? And I said, well, it came from, came from US,
Terry Smith (21:38):
And you know, we, we sometimes get criticized, and especially Bee, I get criticized, uh, because I, I am so, so critical, and I have such high expectations of RSA, and, you know, sometimes I don't give credit where, where, where credit is due. And RSA has done some, done some good things, and, and we, and we express that, uh, to the, to the assistant secretary that, you know, RSA is always great about participating in our, in our conferences. And when we do blast or we do virtual training or whatever it is, you know, they've been willing to participate in, in, in those. And, and, and they were in Atlantic City and we had a real good, um, exchange with them in Atlantic City. And, you know, the fact that they do that is a positive, and, and we really appreciate it. And, you know, when the, uh, army transformation thing came out, you know, they got involved with that and, you know, that was a positive thing.
Terry Smith (22:27):
So, um, you know, we, we, we really appreciate it. Um, but, but there's so much more they could do. And, and, and, and, and so we went into the meeting with the idea of, you know, working toward collaboration and, and, and, and although we were pointing out the negatives in, in, in some way, the criticisms and the concerns, the whole idea was to, to do something to move forward and, and, and, and, and to work in collaboration. And one of the things was, you mentioned the letters that had not been responded to. We had sent letters to four different people at RSA over the last year that did not, we did not get a response. And that just speaks to the, to, to the attitude toward the stakeholders in this program, when, when, when they won't even respond to letters. And I know that's a real source of frustration with you, Nikki.
Nikki Geicos (23:16):
It it sure is. And, um, but you know what, we're gonna move forward. And, um, and, you know, I hope this meeting a couple weeks is more positive. And I think as we move into innovation 24 and a theme for NABM, um, you know, we need them to make sure that they change regulations. And, and we were pretty vocal. We, we, you know, we told Carol Beck, they need to get involved with afis. They can settle some of this stuff that we're gonna go to court about and do that. So we'll see. But you know what, we're, we're at the age now where, you know what? We're good. They're gonna make it happen. It's just gonna happen. And, and it's gonna be good. We, we can't leave Randall Shepherd the way it was. We know we need a change. And we brought that up prior to covid. We even need more change now. And, um, we're gonna make that happen. Terry, I know that this group of, of our board and what we do is we're gonna come up with Innovation 24 and working with our state to move this program forward. We need changes in those regulations and everything else. And I know we did a PowerPoint for them, and, um, are we gonna go through that? Um,
Terry Smith (24:20):
Well, I think I, I think I, I wanna hit, we'll, we'll hit, we'll hit a few of the points that we, we don't have time to go through the entire PowerPoint. Uh, we didn't have time in an hour meeting to go over everything with them in the meeting. But I, I, I'll just mention real quickly, there were, you know, three areas that that, that we hit on. Uh, and, you know, in addition to getting responses to our, to our letters and, and, and, and, you know, having respect for the, for, for, for the, for the views of the blind, there were three areas we hit on. One was, I guess, would, would fall into the category of policy. Nikki's mentioned several times about modernizing and innovation and that kind of stuff. And, and you've heard us say it on this podcast many times, and if you've ever heard either one of us speak, we talk about the regulations were promulgated in 1974.
Terry Smith (25:04):
They need to be modernized. The world we live in today is not the world we lived in in 1974. And I'm not so naive as to think that we can go in and overhaul all the regulations, which is what I'd want to do. But we can start picking out areas in and, and, and, and, and addressing them one, one at a time, uh, and, you know, take some time that way. But it, that's probably more realistic approach. The other thing is that, you know, they're, they can provide a lot of policy guidance on, on a lot of these things that, uh, you know, that they're not, that they're not providing, uh, you know, how the Randolph Shepherd priority applies to military dining? That's a simple question. Uh, we've had hundreds. I mean, literally, we, I, I bet you we've had a hundred arbitrations over this issue, and every one of them could have been avoided if RSA had provided guidance on, on, on how it should be applied.
Terry Smith (25:53):
So, you know, we want them to take a greater role in, in, in, in, in modernize the regulations and providing us with a lot more that than they have in the way of, uh, you know, guidance on, on, on a lot of issues. And we can come up, I think at one point we gave them a list of about 12 different issues that, that we felt, uh, guidance was needed in, you know, whatever, whatever those areas turned out to be. Um, then, you know, it would be, it would certainly be a, you know, help helpful for us. The other thing that we talked about, again, you've also mentioned this too, is, um, uh, enforcement. I mean, I, you know, RSA has sort of had had a hands-off policy in terms of enforcing the Randolph Shepherd Act. And you know, I understand it. There's nothing in the ACT that tells them that they are to, that they are the enforcer, so to speak, but they are the federal agency charged with administering the program and interpreting the act.
Terry Smith (26:47):
And when they know a federal entity is violating the law, pick up the phone and call and provide that agency technical assistance. We're not saying call 'em and, and threaten them or do anything like that, but most of the time if a, if, if a federal agency hears from RSA that they are not doing something correctly, then they're gonna, they're gonna respond to it. We've seen it happen. We saw it happen. Do you remember when, uh, you reached out to, um, uh, RSA about the Coast Guard in Connecticut and, um, they weren't recognizing the Randolph Shepherd priority up there for the Coast Guard Academy RSA engaged, and what did they do? They put the Randolph Shepherd priority in That's all we wanted. Uh, we didn't get the bid, but it wasn't because of, uh, you know, we, we at least got the, got we got the priority. Um, and you know, you've mentioned the, the exchange that's, um, you know, that's a sore spot with us. We're spending, NABM is spending tens of thousands of dollars in, in, in a, in, in a lawsuit that, um, is, um, you know, really unnecessary if, you know, if RSA just did what it needed to do to do.
Terry Smith (28:01):
And, and, and the third thing we mentioned was, um, you know, their, their lack of monitoring of state agencies. And, and when you see, when you hear the conversations, um, like we had about Wisconsin, you, you, you recognize the need to do monitoring and, and they just don't do any real, real degree of monitoring. So states are left in some cases not, I mean, they're, they're not ill intentioned. Uh, they don't, you know, they, they, they may not know any better, but, uh, they're not getting any, you know, federal direction, um, and they're not being monitored and they're not being provided feedback as a result of that monitoring. So, you know, sometimes things get outta whack or go wrong. And, um, you know, we think if, if, if they, if they played a more active role in, in, in doing monitoring, then it would, um, you know, it, it, it would help out the program a great deal.
Terry Smith (28:56):
So, um, that, you know, those, those are really the three areas that we don't have to go into detail in, in no, in what and, and what all those were. But I think the most encouraging thing was that, uh, you know, we asked and that if we could have a half a day, do a half day listening session, and, um, uh, where we will plan an agenda, we will present on different topics, things that we think RSA needs to hear. And so we sort of started putting together a, a, an agenda for that. It's our opportunity to, uh, get to speak to the, the decision makers. We've asked that, uh, all the leadership be there. We've asked that the attorneys be there, we've asked that the fiscal people be there so that we can, um, uh, we can have a dialogue with all of them.
Terry Smith (29:49):
And to my knowledge, this will be the, you know, the first time that, um, you know, that this has ever happened. Um, you know, I had mentioned it to somebody about doing this, you know, probably a year ago, and I was told there's no chance it'll happen. But, you know, uh, assistant Secretary Gallo has, has agreed to it. So it, it, it's a great opportunity for us to go in and again, not in a complaining critical way, but to go in to educate them on, on, on different matters. And I'll just put the challenge out there to people who are listening to this podcast, if you know of things, if there's something you think RSA needs to know about, share that with one of us and let, let us know so that we'll have an opportunity to make sure that if we can work it in, and it's, you know, it fits into what we're trying to, trying to communicate, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll be sure to, to, to, to try to do that. So we're looking forward to that. That's gonna happen, uh, in January. We have a follow-up meeting scheduled now to, um, to, to, to make the plans for that meeting. So we are, we're, we're really looking forward that, and, and appreciate the, the response from the assistant secretary and, you know, I think probably feel good for the first time in a long time about some possible collaboration and positive things happening, happening, uh, with, as a result of that relationship with RSA. Do you agree, Nick?
Nikki Geicos (31:09):
I do agree. And Terry, I think the best thing that, that the assistant secretary said was when we asked for the listening session, she said, I don't want my staff there just listening for half a day. I want them to participate. And we said, that's fine. You know, I mean, as long as the right people are gonna be there and we'll have the right people on our team, um, if we're gonna make this what we, what we need to get done, this is step number one. But like I said over and over again, the fact that she scheduled a meeting prior to the possible shutdown of November 17th for November 15th to, uh, you know, uh, to set up the meet the agenda for the meeting in January is a very positive step. So, um, I think that the staff was engaged. I think we were engaged, and I think we're looking forward to what's gonna come of this. I think it's gonna be, I think, and I think you think the same way, that something's really gonna happen this time. So at least I hope so.
Terry Smith (32:01):
Well, I'm
Terry Smith (32:47):
We're probably below 1500 now. And, you know, at what point does the program become irrelevant? Um, I mean, is it a thousand? What if we get to seven 50? What if we're to 500? You know, at what point do people start saying this program is not necessary? We need to make sure that they don't have a reason to ask that question. We have to, uh, modernize the program. We've got to change its focus. We can't live, um, focus strictly on federal locations. We gotta branch out and do a whole lot of different things, uh, and do things differently. And so, uh, it's up to us to make sure that happens.
Nikki Geicos (33:23):
And Terry, the reason I think that I'm a little more optimistic is that when we sent the letter, the initial letter to Assistant Secretary Gallo, we copied, uh, three Congress on the Democratic side and through the top leadership on the Republican side, uh, maybe that's why we got the response, but we're not gonna stop here if this is this, if this is the same old, same old, um, as, as, and, and we have reason to believe that it could be, we're not stopping there. We're gonna go to Congress and we we're gonna get, we've been doing some early work on that. Um, and we've stopped since these meetings have been set up. This was our, our goal number one. We know if we went to Congress prior to this, they would've said, well, have you tried to reach out to RSA? And so we did reach out to RSA and they've reached back to us.
Nikki Geicos (34:05):
So let's see what happens. Um, you know, it, it is the government, it is bureaucracy, it is a lot of things that I'm not quite still used to. Um, but um, but we, we do have, you know, we're, we're gonna keep this moving because too many blind people are out of work and there's op opportunities for them. I mean, I know that what was the figure we heard over $300 million was returned this year. Um, you know, we asked for $27 million for grants to, to do food trucks or to buy this new IRS machine that could have a game changer for, you know, for locations that we are, because it's kind of like an enclosed micro market. Um, we'll be talking about that on, on our, our blast TNT on November 9th. Um, but, you know, we're moving forward with innovation and we're gonna do it. We need their help. They need to be a partner here. And really the balls in their court as we use our sport metaphors.
Terry Smith (34:57):
Well, we, you, you bring up the innovation money we thought we had last year, the two, the, the $27 million, we thought the stake's turned back $270 million in unspent VR dollars. We asked for 10% this year. They turned back $300 million. Um, and, you know, we were asking it as a one-time grant, department of Education at the time killed it, um, when we thought we had it. And, um, you know, we, we went back this year, tried to get the money back in, and if you, if you know anything about what's been happening in Washington over the last couple of months, you knew that this was not the time to go up there, try to get a bipartisan, um, language entered into the bill. And they basically told us, you know, nothing's gonna happen this year, but we, we do plan on revisiting that for next year, make tweaking it, making some changes in it so that it's a little more palatable.
Terry Smith (35:47):
And hopefully next year we can, we can get that money because we badly need, need that money if we want, if, if we wanna move forward. I mean, we're having situations where, um, and, and Nikki didn't bring it up, you know, in his, when he was talking about being mad as hell, but, you know, we got agencies out there now, they're telling vendors that they gotta buy their own equipment, they gotta do their own repairs. Um, you know, all the stuff that the law says that the agency's supposed to do, that, you know, the vendors now have to do. And, um, so, you know, we, we, we, we need, we need some money to, to, to, to modernize it and, and make improvements in it. And so hopefully next year, uh, we will, we will be able be, be in a bit better position and, uh, can get, can get that money and it'll, it'll make a real difference for our guys.
Nikki Geicos (36:33):
I agree, Terry. And, and you know, I just saw a quote that I'd like to give right here as we talk about this and, and end this podcast. Most people want the convenience of transformation without the inconvenience required for transformation. And I think that that kind of hits on a lot of things that we've talked about. You know, it, there is inconvenience to it and we gotta do that. And we know there is, but if you really want transformation, you gotta change a little bit.
Terry Smith (37:03):
Oh wow. I like that. I do.
Nikki Geicos (37:06):
Yep.
Terry Smith (37:06):
Well, Nikki, it's good being back with you again this month. And, um, um, uh, we apologize that we're a couple days late dropping this podcast. And, uh, we will try to be back on schedule next month. Look for the next one to drop on December the first. And, uh, so until then, Nikki, uh, see you later.
Nikki Geicos (37:26):
See you down the road. Terry. Thanks, buddy. Mm-Hmm,
Terry Smith (37:28):
Outro (37:30):
The, we are Randolph She podcast would like to thank our sponsors, the National Association of Blind Merchants, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Sodexo, you selected Southern Food Service, Tyler Technologies, Anderson Food Service, RSA Management Group, Siteline Wealth Management, and Cantaloupe.
Outro (37:55):
If you would like to support the We Are Randolph Shepherd podcast, we would love to have you on board. Corporate sponsors may contact Nikki koss@nikkicolorado.netscape.net. Individuals who would like to support the podcast may do so by donating to the National Association of Blind merchants@www.blindmerchants.org. We would love to have your support. I.