In this episode, Nicky and Terry discuss everything going on in DC as it relates to Randolph-Sheppard. And it’s a lot
Speaker 1 (00:03):
We are Randolph Shepherd podcast. We're Randolph podcast. This is the We are Randolph Shepherd podcast, promoting blind entrepreneurship and Independence. And now here's the dynamic duo, Nikki Geicos and Terry,
Nicky (00:25):
Welcome to the We Are Randolph Shepherd podcast for the month of February, 2025. Unbelievable. February, 2025. And we can't do this without our sponsors. And that is Coca-Cola. Tyler Technologies, FSIG, Siteline Wealth Management. You select Cantaloupe Cure Dr. Pepper, commissary services of Nashville, Greenway Paper Supplies, inReach, Integra Southern Food Service, Blackstone Consulting, and the National Association of Blind Merchants. Terry, how are you today?
Terry (01:04):
I'm doing great Nikki. And for people listening, Nikki just loves to play games with me because I'm sitting here following the list of sponsors to make sure that we don't leave anybody out and he always goes in a different order and he throws me off every single time. You just like to play with me. So Nikki, it is February and it's great to be here. I cannot believe we are starting year four of this podcast. I mean, that is absolutely crazy that we've been doing this for over three years and certainly having fun doing it and enjoying bringing vital information to the Randolph Shepherd community. But it is February and it is the shortest month of the year. And I haven't clued you in on this, but there are four events that happen every February. Tell me what they are.
Nicky (02:14):
Groundhog Day, super Bowl, Lincoln's birthday, Washington's birthday, or President's Day now and Valentine's Day.
Terry (02:26):
Holy cow. You got it. That's right. You got the, you know what? I thought you'd leave out. I thought you'd leave at Super Bowl because I mean, I know it's ever February, but of course you left out that yours Trulys birthday is in February too. But I didn't,
Nicky (02:44):
You told me four things,
Terry (02:50):
So Yep, February is here. It is going to be a really big month and some exciting things happening. Speaking of the bowl, Nikki, you and I nailed our picks this year, not, we might as well just fess up and get it out of the way. We did our football picks, we picked our Super Bowl teams, we picked our national champions in college football, and we are sort of old for 2024, I guess you can say Super Bowl. Do you remember who you picked?
Nicky (03:24):
Picked the Baltimore Ravens.
Terry (03:26):
You did. You picked the Baltimore Ravens. And
Nicky (03:30):
I was told that when Andrews dropped that ball, I said, you're going to cost me my podcast pick.
Terry (03:36):
Yeah, they should have been there. They should have at least been in the Super Bowl, but they're not Patrick Mahomes and Kansas City's there again, and all you Kansas City haters, you're going to just have to suffer through another one. I picked the San Francisco 49 ERs and they were awful. They didn't even make the playoffs.
Nicky (03:54):
You were done in November?
Terry (03:57):
Oh yeah, I was done before that. I was done in October. It was bad. So I picked the Texans to play the 49 ERs Texans, and they at least made the playoffs and won a game, but they weren't quite as good as I thought they would be. And then on the college level, do you remember who you picked
Nicky (04:22):
DARS Manning and the Texas Longhorns?
Terry (04:24):
You did. You picked Texas
Nicky (04:26):
And right now I'm picking 'em next year.
Terry (04:31):
Go ahead and get it out of the way. Get it. Actually, I did pretty good on the college, just to be honest. I picked Ohio State and Georgia to be playing in the title game, but I picked Georgia to beat 'em. And I still think Georgia would've had a shot had their quarterback not gotten hurt. I think it would've been Georgia and Ohio State in the title game, and that would've been a much better game than what we saw. But I guess the bottom line is we're back to our old self and just our predictions did not come true. And so as I tell people, we love sports, we love making our predictions, but please don't go out and bet on anything we tell you unless you're going to bet just the opposite. Nikki, on a sad note, we lost a couple of vendors since the last podcast we did, and a couple of surprising losses. You want to mention that?
Nicky (05:35):
Sure. And Michael Armstrong from Georgia, who was doing work down there as the committee chair when it was at blast and had a stroke passed away not too long ago. And our thoughts and prayers go out to Michael and the family and also John d, my good Greek friend from Ohio passed away with a bout of cancer. He had battled it for a time and was making progress. And Annette Lutz told me right during the holiday season that he passed away also and he was just starting to get involved. He was feeling better and coming to blast and getting involved at their annual meeting when I went and he'll be missed too. So we want our thoughts and prayers throughout to their families and friends and God bless everybody if we missed anybody too.
Terry (06:23):
Well, I am glad you said John D because I wasn't going to tackle that Greek name. I thought you as a Greek would be able to tackle it. And the thing about it is he was at Blast in November and went back home and five weeks later, or I don't know exactly how long it was, but four to five weeks later he passed away. And then Michael Armstrong was at blast. And on the last podcast I mentioned that he had had a stroke while at Blast but was making a recovery and we were hoping for a full recovery. And then just a matter of days after that podcast dropped, we get the call that he had passed away. And both of those were shocking. And we do send out our thoughts and prayers to their families. And while we're talking about the bad news, the California wildfires have just been, I don't think I've ever seen anything like it, Nikki. I really haven't. I mean, I've watched some of that stuff on television. I don't think the last time I checked with Max Dete, we've had none of our blind vendors or SLA folks out there who have lost their homes, but everybody's been impacted and everybody knows somebody that lost their home. And so that's been a real tragedy.
Nicky (07:47):
It has. And people, and again, we don't get political, but when President Trump was out there, he said he's never seen anything like it that's much worse than the pictures or the things that you're seeing. And it's amazing in this world that we went through Super Storm Sandy and the tornadoes and the hurricanes and all that kind of stuff. I think it makes the country stronger and stuff that people work together to build back again and hopefully they'll build back and learn from mistakes of watering. It's just crazy that they didn't get rained for so many months, but I hope it doesn't happen again. And some other people know that my granddaughter goes to school in Los Angeles and she went back on the Saturday when all the fires were going on. They were starting school on Monday and we were all nervous wrecks, but she's safe and sound and started her second semester of her freshman year. So again, thoughts and prayers, it's tough. It's a crazy world we live in.
Terry (08:50):
Well, I was listening and watching and I kept saying where UCLA was sort of in some potential danger and I never did to hear anything about USC, so I was glad to hear that. And of course our friend Joe Blackstone is out there and he did encounter some problems out there and we wish him and his family well. So it's just a terrible, terrible tragedy out there.
Nicky (09:17):
It is. And real quickly, Terry, our friends in North Carolina too, I think that's still a mess down there. And we some blind vendors lost their locations and struggled through the hurricane of last year and stuff too. So we think of everybody, it's tough, and if anybody needs help, please let us know. That's what we do here.
Terry (09:39):
Yeah, I'm right now about, I'm at my mom's house when we're recording this and I'm probably 20 miles from where all of that from on the Tennessee side started. And there are still some, like the interstate interstates is still closed. Interstate 40, it's main thoroughfare from Knoxville to Asheville is still closed. So the rest areas and welcome centers are obviously impacted. And when we go from here to my son's house in South Carolina, we have to take those twisty, curvy roads across the mountains. It's like going back 40 or 50 years in time when you used to before there were interstates and you were traveling those back roads. That's sort of what it's like now to go from here to Asheville, which used to be an hour trip, is now at least a two hour trip. But yeah, hopefully they're going to get things back up and running and we're going to be pretty good moving forward.
Nicky (10:40):
I'll tell you one thing, this Jersey kid with my accident, I'm not coming down driving any of those back roads, North Carolina or Tennessee.
Terry (10:56):
So Nikki, we always take a few seconds, few minutes to talk about what's going on in our lives and we call it what's up. So Nikki, what's up?
Nicky (11:09):
Well, Terry, it is February and the thing that I like best about this is that the days are getting longer and the sun's out a little bit longer and Sun says later and the days are nice that when I go to the gym now at four 30, come home, it's light out now and it's the start of spring. It's coming soon. He said it is the shortest month and we're looking forward to that because there's going to be a lot going on. There's a lot going on now, but there's going to be a lot more going on in March and April and stuff as we move towards NAMA in our small blast conference training that we're doing out there. But what's up with me, Terry, is that you know that for many, many years and I've been involved in trying to merge the two Randall Shepherd groups together and still get just negative type of things from the other organization, we're down numbers.
(12:05)
We have problems. Dr. Jernigan many years ago said, you guys, you could be a CB or NFB, but you got to come together. You're going to have issues with Randall Shepherd. Boy, we know we do every day executive orders, the tax, different things that are coming out that we're going to talk about. But it's still my dream that we've merged these two organizations so that we are on one page, we're given one message to the government, one message, and working together to help blind vendors get back to work. And we're going to have some opportunities if federal employees come back to work or we're going to have some if federal workers take the buyout and leave. It's crazy, but we need to work together. And that's my plea. I've reached out that because of a lot of budget cuts, the majority of the Sagebrush conference is virtual this year, and I've asked Scott to make sure that he tells people that it's virtual so that they know.
(13:03)
So they dunno in case they don't go to Vegas thinking it's going to be something. But I hope this all gets settled so that agency people can come to trainings and learn and do all that. And I hope that my dream will come true before I leave. And I'm not telling you I'm leaving now, but you never know. I mean, right now my goal is for a year from July and then I'll have to rethink everything, but that's where my presidency is up, my Navajo board seat is up, and I hope that we can merge these organizations and that the Randall Shepherd program is better than it was when I started many years ago. What's up with you, Terry?
Terry (13:39):
Well, first of all, that was not a retirement announcement folks, so it was
(13:44)
Just a note that, hey, this is when my term's up and this is when I have to rethink things. Nikki, I want a couple of things, just a couple of quick stories with me. It's about family and last month I had the grandkids on and after the podcast was over, they talked about that, that I gave them more S than Santa Claus. And after it was over Milo, my 9-year-old grandson says, he said, I think Santa Claus really has some competition from pops. And so then he thinks about it, he says, pops, I got an idea. He said, I think next year you need to get us even more stuff and Santa Claus, I think he has to keep up and he'll get us more stuff.
(14:36)
So I don't think that's going to happen, Milo, but good thinking. But I mentioned that I was at my mom's house and I'm up here because she's had some health issues. I just got to tell this story real fast. Nikki knows it. I got a call first week of January after we got back from Christmas and three days after we get back, I get a call, she's in the hospital, she's had a heart attack. She's 92 and a half going on 93 years old and we're three hours away and she could not find anybody to take her to the doctor. She was having pains and she knew it was something she needed to go to. The doctor couldn't find anybody to take her, so she just gets in the car, drives herself to the hospital, goes to the post office, first mails off her bills that she's got, that she's got, drives herself to the hospital and then goes into the hospital and they say, ma'am, you're having a heart attack. And they go in, they put in a stent, 48 hours later she walks out, gets in the car, calls her hairstylist and says, can you get me in? I'm dying my hair.
(15:50)
And she got her hair done. And so she is back home. I'm spending some time with her just to make sure that she is doing well and can be independent and she's back driving again. It's absolutely amazing. This woman is, she is one tough cookie and I just hope I have her gene at going on 93 and still driving and as tough as nails. So that's why. What's that?
Nicky (16:21):
No, I said, you know what? It's funny about women like that. When my mother went in the hospital with cancer, she was in a few days and stuff, and we were talking about what's going to happen, and she eventually died soon coming out of the hospital, but I said, what can I get for you? What can I do to make you better? And she said, can you call the beautician and have her come to the hospital and do my hair? So I looked better. I said, so I understand what she's talking about.
Terry (16:47):
Exactly. Exactly. It
(16:51)
Nikki, we don't have a guest this week, this month because we planned on it, but we had so much stuff happening and we decided that we would just, there was some Randolph Shepherd stuff that we wanted to talk about and discuss. And so we're going to get into that. And last year, well, first of all, the states have turned in their RSA 15 reports and the RSA, well, I say they all have, they were due December 31st. I'm sure there's a couple of stragglers. But anyway, we're close to getting the RSA 15 reports turned in, so it won't be too far too long until we know what the numbers look like. And so last year we did an over and under, if you remember, and when the covid hit, we had like 1800 vendors and you and I said in five years we'd be down to 1300.
(17:45)
Well, this is year five of the RSA 15. It's really just year four and a half after the, well, I guess it is four and a half years after the pandemic, but last year I had you to go over under and I gave you the number of 1425 and you had to go over under what the numbers would show on the RSA 15 for how many vendors we had. You went over the actual number came in at 1428, so you were correct last year. Now, as a technicality, I got to thinking some vendors were counted twice. We got vendors operating in multiple states. So if you're operating in two states, you got counted twice. So we were probably right on that 1425 number actually. So this year I'm going to try it again and we're going to go with, let's see, what about 1350? So that would be a drop of 78 vendors compared to last year. So over under 1350,
Nicky (18:57):
I'm going to say, and I know from my state from, I'm going to say over only because we have a number of people that are working one day a week, two days a week, but we haven't dropped, we lost three to retirement. Let me think about this. No, you know what I'm going to say under
Sponsor info (19:20):
He
Terry (19:20):
Changed his mind.
Nicky (19:21):
Yep, I changed my mind.
Terry (19:25):
So either way, I think we're definitely going to be under 1400, and I think we're going to be pretty close to our prediction when we were talking about 1300 and people to say we were crazy and all that kind of stuff. But you're thinking under 1350. That's your final answer.
Nicky (19:45):
Yep, yep. It was my final answer.
Terry (19:47):
Okay. So we will wait for Jesse and his team to get the final numbers turned in and maybe, I don't know, maybe we'll have him come on and actually give that number to see what it looks like
Nicky (20:04):
Or knowing RSA, they may have it ready by last in Vegas on May 5th and sixth. Yeah, yeah.
Terry (20:11):
Well, you can't blame RSA. It's
Nicky (20:15):
The states I get in.
Terry (20:17):
I mean, I don't know what it is with some states that just,
Nicky (20:20):
And how many trainings have we done? Has everybody done on that and they still can't get it, right. It's unbelievable.
Terry (20:26):
I'll say this based on what I'm hearing, I think the stakes were much more timely this year in getting those in. So I think we will get the number pretty fast. Nikki, the number one thing on everybody's mind right now is what's happening on the political landscape and just so much happening with the new president taking over and all of his executive actions that he's taken, the executive orders and the memorandums. And so people keep asking me, how's this going to impact Randolph Shepherd? What's this mean for us? The real answer is I don't have a clue. I just want to know the truth. I don't have a clue. I wanted to hit on a couple of them or three or four of them here that have happened and just sort of get your feelings about it. But the first one has to do with the federal workers going back to work, and that's one that could actually be a positive for us.
Nicky (21:41):
Oh, sure can. Especially with things that I'm hearing or they're going to consolidate buildings. So if there's 401 building and the next building has 300, they put 701 and close the other, it could help us for as far as food service and vending and markets and stuff. So it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. I really hope they do come back to work. I know that New York, that American Express, JP Morgan Chase, Google are bringing people back five days a week effective next Monday. So we'll see how that works too. I think people need to get back to work. I like it a lot better when I go to work and see people and talk and see my staff and do all that than it was for that couple years when you were home a lot.
Terry (22:30):
Well, I think there's some things that have to be worked through, and I don't know how they're going to do that. I know that working from home is part of some of the collective bargaining agreements, so I don't know if the president will terminate those bargaining agreements or whether the unions will go back to the table and they'll work out new collective bargaining agreements. I don't know what the strategy will be there, but that's something that has to be worked through. And the other thing that's got to be worked through is the federal government let go a lot of rental property where federal employees were housed. So they got to figure out if we're going to make you come back to work, where are you going? And we talk about our friends at RSA, Jesse and Corrine and Christine and Jim, and that whole bunch, their building that they were in was a rental building and you wouldn't have ever thought that if you saw it, it looks like a traditional standard Washington DC government building, but it was actually a rental building so they can't go back to that building. So if all these people are going to back to work, then they're going to have to find some space for them.
Nicky (23:49):
They'll be interested. We did reach out to Dmitri from GSA to see if she can come to blast and talk to us about that. Then by that time, what is going to happen again, a landscape probably should be interested.
Terry (24:01):
Yeah, I noticed, I saw where, and this was back several weeks ago where they talked about where Elon Musk, he projected that 40% of the workers would resign rather than come back to work. And what's happened is a lot of these workers in DC moved out and they got remote work agreements and they live in South Carolina or Arizona or Florida, and now they have to go back to work and many of them are not going to go back to DC. And so you're going to see a lot of folks that aren't going to do it. And now we just got, just yesterday, we got the word on the day that we're recording this, that the president has offered basically a buyout for all federal employees and they're expecting five to 10% of the workforce to take that buyout. So it's an eight months pay. And so they're expecting that several federal workers will be doing that. So the workforce is going to change, but I think the net effect of all of that for us can be a positive because there won't be as many opportunities, but the opportunities will be better. Instead of having buildings with 200 people, we can go back to having buildings with 800 people. I'd rather have two buildings with 800 to a thousand people in it than have five buildings with 200 or 300 people in it. So I think the net gain for us is a positive. Would you agree?
Nicky (25:51):
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Terry (25:56):
The other thing, they are saying that even regardless of what happens with the workers coming back and all that kind stuff, when they get to the budget in March, when the continuing resolution is over, there's going to be major cuts and the federal employees are sitting there like, okay, we can take the buyout and we can get eight months of free pay or eight months of pay, or we can take our chances and then have a chance of having our job abolished come March. So some of those guys have some really tough decisions to make.
Nicky (26:34):
The uncertainty is tough. Unfortunately, a lot of federal workers know when a lot of blind vendors went through during covid and stuff right now trying to find jobs to do that.
Terry (26:46):
The other big thing is on the regulation side, they are wanting to repeal regulations and for every one regulation that is promulgated, they want 10 regulations eliminated. I don't think that the Randolph Shepherd regulations would be in any sort of jeopardy. I mean you have to have regulations. Congress ordered that there be directed. The department at the time it was health, education and welfare. Today it's education, but they directed the Department of Education to promulgate regulations and particularly as it relates to cafeterias. So I don't think that we're at risk. It's entirely possible they could just wipe 'em out though. Wouldn't that create chaos?
Nicky (27:45):
Oh, it sure would for sure. Oh, absolutely. Even the regulations that we were worried about prior to the new administration, do we write comments or not write comments? Supposedly the comments are still available. I can't believe it with this administration are going to take comments, but I think that's a good thing for us to make those comments on the vending machine and stuff.
Terry (28:08):
Yeah, we're going to talk about that in a minute. I want to hit a couple of other things here real fast. There was a lot of confusing. They gave the executive order pausing funding on a number of areas. I was getting a lot of calls. State agencies were telling vendors they were pausing on their BEP projects. They didn't know where they're going to have funding. I mean, it was just mass confusion. Fortunately, the president rescinded that executive order. I don't think that means it's over. I think he's determined to cut spending, but I think the order itself was confusing. And so I think they'll go back to the drawing board and they will figure that out and come back with something else. And here again, I think when the continuing resolution is over and they have to come up with a new budget, I think you're going to see some funding cuts.
(29:02)
The other thing I want to mention is Nikki, the president issued the executive order about DEI and eliminating DEI in the federal government, diversity, equity and inclusion. And I thought it was very interesting that there is a section in that executive order section seven, which specifically exempts Randolph Shepherd from the DEI orders and make sure that it's clear that Randolph Shepherd is a set aside program for the blind and it's not being affected by any of this, which I think is a positive for us. We're not going to tell anybody the secrets on how that ended up in there. You can go to your grave on that one unless you want to say otherwise. But that was, it's impressive that somebody at the in the transition team knew about Randolph Shepherd and wanted to make sure that we were protected.
Nicky (30:21):
Yeah, we did a call today with Ability one catch up from Blast and they said, man, you guys must be some powerful people to get that put in there. We said, we are.
Terry (30:33):
Just tell it like it is, tell it like it is. So we were talking about the notice of proposed regulations. You mentioned it earlier, and for those of you who weren't sure exactly what we were talking about, the Department of Education proposed new regulations just a few weeks ago and doing some things which we'll talk about here in a little bit of detail tail and basically changing the definition of vending machine. That's what it was all about. And then the administration comes in and puts a hold on all regulations, but if you looked at it, it did not affect regulations that were already posted and in the comment period. So our regulations are still out there. As I understand it, the plan is still to accept comments on those proposed regulations. And so we will be preparing comments that can will be submitted on behalf of the National Federation of the Blind, will be submitting comments.
(31:40)
The National Association of Blind Merchants will be submitting comments, and we will get a template out to anybody that either committee chair or a committee member or a vendor at large comments that you can submit as well. And we'll give you instructions on how to do that because this is not something where we want to generate 5,000 comments, but if we can get 75, 80 comments submitted, they're going to have to at least respond to those. But Nikki, I think you're right. I think we need to go through and submit the comments and take this as an opportunity to sort of communicate what our concerns are with these regulations, but more importantly, what they're not regulating that they should be regulating. So thoughts on that?
Nicky (32:36):
Yep. I'm excited about the opportunity. I always like the opportunity. I think if we take advantage of the opportunity, if they're going to let us make comment, let's make comment, let's make it help us,
Terry (32:46):
Right? I think the one thing they're doing is defining, they're distinguishing between articles and services. So they start out by defining an article, which I think everybody in the world knows what an article is. You don't need a definition and a federal regulation to tell you what an article is, but they basically define it as something you can touch and relocate. And that in and of itself is not an issue. Where it becomes an issue is that in the definition of vending machine, they say that a vending machine has to sell an article as opposed to a service. And that's where we have real concerns. And it's not that there's a whole lot of examples out there now where we are doing services. I think a corn operated laundromat, there may be some of those out there. There were in the past that would fall into that category, but there's not a whole lot of examples. But man alive, you look at how technology has advanced in the last five, 10 years and what it's going to look like five or 10 years from now. And I think our fear is that they're going do something that is going to eliminate opportunities in the future for us. And that's our major concern.
Nicky (34:22):
I agree a hundred percent.
Terry (34:27):
So we're trying to get them to drop that part. We do like the fact that they have given examples of what constitutes a vending facility and these regulations were written 50 years ago. And so what a vending facility looks like now is different. And so they've gone in and given examples of what a vending facility looks like. They've included micro markets for the first time, retail stores, gift shops, catering, food trucks, pop-up restaurants and laundry establishments are listed as vending facilities. So that's good. In our comments, we're going to suggest that they provide a couple of more examples of non-food type establishments that would qualify and just to place the emphasis that it doesn't always have to be on food product. The other thing they did in the definition of vending machine is they took out the part. It has to be, the regulation is now saying it's a transaction using cash or currency.
(35:34)
That's just not the way it is anymore. We use electronic methods. And so they did add electronic payment methods to the definition. So that is a positive thing. I guess the only other thing that we would mention here is there is an exemption in the regulations that exempts the National Park Service and nasa, and it says that if they combine services that are not traditionally provided by a blind vendor, then they do not have to give a priority if they're including vending facility services with other contracts. So if you're combining servicing, your vending machines is in the same contract as lawn care, janitorial maintenance and that kind of stuff, you do not have to give a priority to the blonde. And what we've run into in some of these parks is they'll give a contract. The contract includes giving tours, free tours, free lectures, showing movies in the little theater, that kind of stuff.
(36:40)
But then it's really a gift shop is what it is, but we don't get the priority because they're combining it with other services. So they're trying to actually help us, I believe is the intent here, but I'm not sure that that's what happens. I think we're questioning what is the statutory basis for granting the exemption in the first place. It may be there, I just don't know. I just don't know what the concessions act, how it intersects with Rand Shepherd. So we're just asking for clarification on that and urging them to treat parks and NASA just like anybody else when it comes to the priority.
(37:23)
And then I guess the other thing that we did not was a lot of areas that they did not address, which we think they could have addressed. And yeah, we've been fussing for, we gave them Nikki, it's been seven or eight years ago, we gave them a whole list of stuff that we felt they needed to either to modernize the regulations. And I don't know if it was when Trump came into office the first time, I think when they were asked to review the regulations and what needed to be modernized and updated, and we gave them a whole list of things and none of that list really made it to these regulations. And the funny thing is that you can tell the story, but we've told it before, what was it? January of 2022, department of Transportation reached out to you and what happened?
Nicky (38:35):
21, I think it was 21, was it?
Terry (38:38):
No, it was 22. It was after the, oh yeah, he took office January 21 and then it was
Nicky (38:44):
After the White House and Department of Transportation reached out to us and said, we want to put EV chargers on rest areas. Said, you can't do it, it's commercialization. And somebody came up with the idea that an EV charger was a vending machine, said, yeah, we could do it. They said, well, we're going to get that in 60 days from the Department of Education that it's a vending machine. And we said, we laughed at 'em and they said, what are you laughing at? We said, 60 days. And here we are going on year four and still can't get an answer if an EV chargers a vending machine. So I think it is NAMA thinks it is. Everyone else I know thinks it is, but can't get that answer. So here we are three years plus now.
Terry (39:28):
Yeah, and that's the irony. This whole thing, they started this whole rulemaking process to address that issue and then they did not address the issue. And so yeah, we are asking the question in the comments, and that's some of the things we're going to be asking our listeners to address when they submit their comments is says, is an electric vehicle charging station a binding machine? And if enough of us ask the question, they're going to have to answer it and whether they put it in the regulations or not, if it's just in the answers to the questions, then they will, they need to address it. Now. There's always a chance that they'll accept the comments and then they will kill the regulations and we'll never get a response. But if they want to move forward, then they're going to have to address it one way or the other thing is of all the things they could have, they could have done, I mean that we've asked for, the law talks about that we have a priority to operate a ending facility. What does operate mean? Big on definition. They will define article, but what does it mean to operate? They don't define it. There's confusion over satisfactory side. They just have to give 250 square feet that is outdated. That's not in the law, but some people get shafted because that's all they'll give us.
(41:02)
How does the priority apply to military dining? These regulations were written before there was ever thought of military dining. And so we are providing them in our comments with a list of topics that we think that they could have addressed and need to address. And if they're going to have these regulations, then they need to go ahead. This is sort of the one chance to make it happen. So we'll see where it goes. If you're a betting man, what's your bet? Do the regulations go forward or do they die?
Nicky (41:45):
They die.
Terry (41:47):
Yeah, I agree. I think they're dead, but we can't take chance.
Nicky (41:52):
We can't take the change
Terry (41:54):
If we don't make any comments, they just say, oh, look, everybody agrees. Nobody made any comments, so let's just move forward the way they are. So I think as a whole, even with these changes, an electric vehicle charging station is a vending machine because you can touch electricity and you can relocate electricity. So therefore it is an article even if they, so I think on the whole balance, I think the regulations are probably come out just a little bit on the positive side, but they could have done so much more for us.
Nicky (42:33):
And Terry, you brought it up before too, the way technology is with these smart markets and these walkthrough stores and everything else that's coming up. I mean, I was just at a conference where they talked about there's not going to be any more scanning go or scanning anything. It's done by AI and pictures. That's what we have to worry about with AI coming out and everything. If they don't put things in there, we're not going to be able to do it and we're going to need to be doing, I mean, that's going to be our everyday business in some of those things. So I think the future, we need to be part of the future and not just think about COLA or a price of Pepsi and a bag of chips.
Terry (43:10):
Correct. You just slam the door to so many possibilities.
(43:18)
And Nikki, the other thing RSA did was they released a technical assistance circular on using funds for management services in Randolph Shepherd. And I don't think there was anything just earth shattering in this one. I think the first two they did on Randolph Shepherd really moved the needle a little bit in terms of what they can and can't do. This one, they really clarify what you can use federal funds for and what you can use set aside for. And clearly you can use federal funds to pay for staff. They say that the RDO Shepherd staff, but it talks about with the active participation of the committee. So the committee is still allowed to actively participate in it, but you cannot use any set aside or federal dollars for the use of anything related to the day-to-day operations of the facility beyond the six month establishment period. During the first six months you could have free will, but after that six months, you cannot use federal or set aside dollars for ongoing operations. And that's where we've gotten into some problems in the past with states who do the accounting for the vendors and pay their employees and all that kind of stuff. Those kinds of things are not allowable.
(44:50)
They talk about you can provide use for in-service and upper mobility training. I thought it was really interesting. You can use as management services, you can use federal and set aside dollars to pay replacement help when you're away for upward mobility training. So an agency can say, okay, Nikki, you got to go to this training. You're going to be gone two days. You need somebody to fill in for you. Here is the money. You can bill them and they can pay that using federal dollars if they so chose, I don't know that it'd have to be an additional expense to you. They're not just going to pay you a blanket amount to cover staff that you don't actually hire, but if you really do have to hire somebody, you are eligible under this. It's allowable, lemme say eligible. It's allowable to use federal dollars for that.
(45:47)
It's also, we've talked about the need to have some management information systems that you can file online and all that kind of stuff. That is an allowable expense. Now, I thought that really the thing that they really hit home was that legal cost associated with providing consultation on a program-wide matter or to represent the SLA in pursuing or preserving vending facilities is allowable. So that if a state agency has hires an attorney, they can provide consultation or if they're a go to arbitration or whatever, if you're fighting a federal agency or whatever, even in arbitration or court, that is an allowable expense to use with your federal dollars and set aside, what you cannot provide it for is accounting for individual blind vendors, as I mentioned earlier, and they're very clear in here. You can't provide it for training not related to the business operation.
(47:02)
Now this is really interesting and I think it's getting really down in the weeds and getting really, really picky. So they cannot pay somebody to come into your upper mobility training, for example, and teach you on personal money management, how to balance your checkbooks, how to invest your money, all your personal money. They cannot do that. You can't bring somebody in to talk about retirement planning or at least pay somebody to come in and talk about retirement planning. SSDI benefits, they cannot technically pay Mike Dota, who is our social security expert. They cannot pay him to come in using set aside or fellow dollars to talk about incurred business expenses and things like that. A lot of states, they cannot use federal dollars to generate 10 90 nines for either the vendor or the employee. They can't use it to file sales tax forms or paying sales taxes for blind vendors. They can't use it to pay unemployment or to file unemployment reports and pay taxes or payroll deposits. So none of that kind of stuff is allowable. That gets into doing the individual cost of the blind vendors. They cannot use federal dollars to pay legal cost associated with legal litigation when the attorney is representing the SLAs own best interest. Meaning that if a blind vendor has a grievance and they have an attorney represented, the state cannot use set SETASIDE dollars or federal dollars to pay that attorney. And I mean, it's only fair. It's not fair.
Nicky (48:51):
Absolutely. And they've been doing it.
Terry (48:53):
Yeah, they've been doing it. And they'll use your setaside dollars and federal dollars that they draw down from it and hire an attorney against you, defending yourself against you
Nicky (49:04):
Using your own money to go against you from your set aside.
Terry (49:10):
So they're very clear that they cannot do that. Now a lot of 'em hide that in there and it's hard to find. The other thing is, and we've had some of this, and I know for a fact, one state on a case that I was involved in got caught doing this against, although we told them you can't do it, they paid a settlement out to set aside and that's not allowable. So if you want to settle a case against a blind vendor, that's all fine and good, but you cannot charge it to set aside or federal dollars. So those are the highlights of the technical assistance circular. So we don't have to go into any more detail. Like I said, I don't think it was as earth shattering or didn't move the needle as much as some of the first two, but appreciate the guidance that they provided. I think all in all, they provided three technical assistance circulars during the, well, not quite a year, a little over a year. And I thought they were pretty positive for the most part. So I give RSA hard time, but I want to give 'em kudos for the technical assistance circulars that they worked in.
Nicky (50:27):
And I agree, I give the kudos. I think this one was a little more watered down than we would've wanted, but the last one that came out before this one where states could use money to purchase things, I'm still getting so upset with that. States are still, we can't do that, why we can't do that. But it says it in attack vehicles have become a big thing and people say, well, we can't buy a vehicle. You don't have a driver's license. You're blood, but it's equipment for the facility. And I think of all the trainings we've done that Jesse's done and everything that states still don't understand some of these tax and what's allowable and what they can do and to help the blind vendor work. And I mean, if you have a route and you need a van and things are expensive right now and you can help the person out and the blind vendor out and you could use the money to do it, RA is telling you can do it. Stop fighting about it and let's do it. I mean, let's get people back to work. Let's get that $1,300, 1300 number higher. Let's look for these new things and opportunities. So don't fight what the techs say, take 'em and use them to improve, not to make it worse. So I'm done with that.
Terry (51:38):
Well, and Nick, I just want to say one thing before we wrap up here and having to do with states buying equipment and things, and this is not an excuse because they're not doing it. They have plenty of money and they're not doing it. They turn money back and they're rather than spend it on some of these innovative things that we're talking about. With that said, I think state vendors need to sort of be prepared that the next year or so is going to be tough financially in a lot of states and everything is converging. The COVID dollars as of September 30 went away. The states used those a lot, so now they're looking for ways to replace those dollars. So that's making things tight. I think you're going to see the federal government, I think rehab dollars will get cut. That's just me talking.
(52:36)
That's just my guess. I have no way of knowing that for sure. But that's what we use to draw down in support of the program. So there may be some belt tightening out there and we'll just have to see what impact that has on the program. But it is something that is very concerning to us. I don't think I'm cautiously optimistic that Randolph Shepherd itself is not going to be in jeopardy in this administration. But I will say this, I think there's a possibility that it will get looked at by somebody. Now obviously we've got the language in the executive order that provides some protection, but they're looking at everything. And so I'm kind of almost guarantee that they'll at least look at Randolph Shepherd and see how that fits into the government efficiency goal that they have. I think we can withstand that scrutiny, but we'll have to see where all that goes. But I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll come out the other end.
Nicky (53:51):
And I thought that I said, geez, this administration's going to expand the Randall Shepherd program. When I talked about Greenland in Canada to come in states, I said, boy, there's a lot of opportunity for more buildings in Green
Terry (54:03):
Canada. How many facilities can we open in Canada, in Mexico? Yeah.
Nicky (54:09):
So Jerry, before we go and everything we're talking about with all these new executive orders and people calling us left and right, what does this mean? I mean, while we're doing this podcast, I got four phone calls and I'm sure that that's what it was about. And the quote is, every setback offers two paths To see it has a defeat or to embrace it has a lesson. The choice is always yours. And I think we always embrace things as lessons and training and stuff and not as defeats. And I think everyone needs to have that attitude to there are setbacks and there are going to be some setbacks, but let's embrace it as a lesson in how we move on from it and not as a defeat. Terry, thank you for working with me on this podcast for four years, and I look forward to seeing you for our next podcast in March. And I hope everybody enjoys this February issue of we are Randolph Shepherd. Thank you and goodnight.
Terry (55:08):
Thank you. And goodnight.
Support info (55:10):
The we are Randolph Shepherd Podcast. Would like to thank our sponsors, the National Association of Wine Merchants, Blackstone Consulting, Southern Food Service, Sodexo in Reach, Greenway Paper Supplies, Coca-Cola, Siteline Wealth Management, Tyler Technologies, FSIG. You selected Cantaloupe, Keurig, Dr. Pepper, commissary services of Nashville.
Sponsor info (55:41):
If you would like to support the We Are Randolph Shepherd podcast, we would love to have you on board. Corporate sponsors may contact Nikki geicos@nikkicolorado.netscape.net. Individuals who would like to support the podcast may do so by donating to the National Association of Blind merchants@www.blindmerchants.org. We would love to have your support. I.